5 Filters

Sunetra Gupta vs the Guardians

Covid
#1

Dr Sunetra Gupta defends herself from the Guardian, in the Daily Mail…

Who else thinks this second lockdown is absolute folly, and thinks SAGE just made it all up?
When you realise that since the first wave, when there were 41.000 deaths counted for about 350,000 positive tests, and that now there are two times more positive cases added but with only another 6000 odd deaths, you see that this second resurgence is one tenth as lethal as the first, for a variety of reasons. If the progression in case fatality rate was constant, then for there to be 85,000 deaths it would need about 12 million positive cases, which with the numbers of undetected cases would mean that the UK had reached herd immunity. Only I don’t think that’s what they mean! I can’t see that this claim from SAGE is anything other than a manipulative LIE, providing the necessary cover for Johnson to do what he intended to do, in line with what France and the rest are doing - creating a mega crisis where there needn’t be one. Bastards.

2 Likes
#2

Bastards, plus off-trolley panic-heads, D.

The panic-sheep are - presumably - responsible for the foaming insanity of the violent language thrown at anyone who disagrees with ‘authority’s’ dispensation on covid (and haven’t we seen some astonishing demos of that cowardly knee-jerk response lately! I would be seriously ashamed to be so intelligent and so well-informed, and yet be so ridiculously easy to sucker, simply out of trembling fear of death!).

The bastards are the minority special-interest scammers who - increasingly unmistakably - are pulling out all the stops to steer the global panic and keep it whipped up, with an aim to build up massively the WealthPowerStatus fix they think that they can score out of this deliberately-induced shitstorm.

Sunetra seems gobsmacked by the resulting hysteria. As are many other sheltered bourgeois souls in comfortable positions in the richer countries, where it’s so easy to believe that Aunties Graunibeeb and others of that deceitful ilk are great pillars of rectitude and honesty whom you can always trust. Hah! Rude awakenings all round, I think.

Couldn’t be clearer by now, I think, that the well-bought Fraudian and the well-bought mediawhore Viner who runs it are by now solidly integrated into the deep-state power structure that runs - what’s left of - the Anglozionist empire. No hope for any honest journalism from the crowd of judases at Graunibeeb and ilk. And of course the Heil only gives space to Sunetra because they have agendas of their own to nurture at Nuremberg Towers, and her viewpoint happens to suit, for the moment. :laughing:

2 Likes
#3

Hi Dimac.

Just some comments on the politics of Gupta’s appearance in the Mail.

The Great Barrington Declaration was widely dismissed as representing the economics of a bunch of right wing freedom wingbats. But Gupta indicates otherwise:

"Of course, I do have deeply held political ideals — ones that I would describe as inherently Left-wing. I would not, it is fair to say, normally align myself with the Daily Mail.

I have strong views about the distribution of wealth, about the importance of the Welfare State, about the need for publicly owned utilities and government investment in nationalised industries."

So much for the rightwing theory - primarily advanced by orthodox Covid followers on the left in order not to have to discuss the issues raised by the Barrington proposers.

It’s also interesting that just as these Drs had to use the likes of Breidbart to make the declaration, they also have to use rightwing organs in the uk. This is because of censorship on social media and the MSM. Interestingly, some trying to discuss the Great Barrington declaration on TLN found the same as Gupta complains about - censorship, abuse and bans - as well as the smearing by association that Dr Gupta mentions.

" Indeed, we believe that a better way forward would be to target protective measures at specific vulnerable groups, such as the elderly in care homes."

“It is perplexing to me that so many refuse even to consider the potential benefits of allowing non-vulnerable citizens, such as the young, to go about their lives and risk infection, when in doing so they would build up herd immunity and thereby protect the lives of vulnerable citizens.”

“I have been accused of not having the right expertise, of being a ‘theoretical’ epidemiologist with her head in the clouds. In fact, within my research group, we have a thriving laboratory that was one of the first to develop an antibody test for the coronavirus.”

If people who are not scientists are insulting professors of epidemiology during an epidemic, then (right or wrong about lockdowns), it’s clear Gupta et al have been dismissed very hastily and with predisposition.

She’s on the learning curve here as regards the realpolitik of science in the media:

"Moreover, matters certainly are not helped by outlets such as The Guardian, which has repeatedly published opinion pieces making factually incorrect and scientifically flawed statements, as well as borderline defamatory comments about me, while refusing to give our side of the debate an opportunity to present our view.

“I am surprised, given the importance of the issues at stake — not least the principle of fair, balanced journalism — that The Guardian would not want to present all the evidence to its readers. After all, how else are we to encourage proper, frank debate about the science?”

Ah bless. I’m not surprised - the Guardian might be less right wing than the Mail, but it isn’t more liberal on freedom of speech (an issue that on Covid the right seems to champion), and on science it’s orthodox and reactionary.
Prof Gupta probably hasn’t disagreed much with mainstream science up till now! It will have been a shock to her to be told not to mention the thing on the radio that she turned up to propose.
Cheers

2 Likes
#4

‘Who else thinks this second lockdown is absolute folly, and thinks SAGE just made it all up?’

Last week was incredible in terms of the straight propaganda being pumped out; ever higher figures and ever more doom laden predictions resulting in the predictable and pre-determined result at the end. I posted the Gupta article on the LBN to the usual mix of derision, hostility and misrepresentation (with some honourable exceptions of course) and even earned myself some input from the holy father, John Hilley who’s now written three blog posts about the Barrington Declaration, at last count. Given the lineage of that board you’d have thought the blatant drive by the media towards lockdown (with the BBC leading the charge) would have at least raised a few eyebrows but I get the feeling that if I hadn’t brought it up, no one would even have mentioned it.

#5

It’s all mind-numbing, being in what seems like such a small minority, only sharing ideas with the right-wing media. I’ve recently found quite a few sensible and different articles in the Spectator, some of whose other content and authors I’d never deign to read.
But there are also alert and imaginative authors in strange places, with two recently of special interest to me. One was Bruce Scott, a psychotherapist in Edinburgh who wrote about the “Covidian cult” in Off Guardian, and another in this unusual journal - you may be familiar with - which is just brilliant in its analysis:

I haven’t visited the LBN for a while now, and don’t know that I can, it’s rather depressing.

1 Like
#6

The Guardian slipping even further…definitely worse than in 1872.
[This was to be a new thread but the 5f board software told me the post was similar to … other posts criticizing the Guardian. So I gave in :slight_smile: ]

Nine in 10 parents in England approve of Covid jabs for children, survey finds

ONS survey comes as member of Sage suggests there is not enough evidence to back vaccinatng children

"Almost nine in 10 parents in England say they favour giving their children a Covid vaccine if they were offered it, according to a national survey released by the Office for National Statistics.

The survey of more than 4,400 parents with children under the age of 16 and attending school found that 88% said they would definitely or probably agree to vaccinate their child, with just 12% saying they would not favour vaccination."

The link is to the ONS page, not to the study. That’s probably because they didn’t want their little ruse to be too obvious; i.e. counting unknowns amongst the positives.- a deception that was possibly meant to be a fitting tribute to Rumsfeld.
The motivation probably being the news that SAGE isn’t on board with vaccinating children. Outrageous - what do we pay them for! Whatever will Bill say?

1 Like
#7

Yes Bruce Scott is great.

I gather that Play School presenter Devi Sridhar will now be writing for the Guardian, where she will fit perfectly.

#8

Touche, lol

…20

#9

Interesting to see the framing even in a very well balanced article like this one:

[…] whatever else happens, death will catch up with us eventually.[…] Ordinarily, most of us don’t pay much attention to the risks we face, instead sleepwalking past them until they strike. Yet we still know, in a sort of detached way, that more than 10,000 people die most weeks in the UK, that many of those deaths are preventable…

Not preventable but postponable

#10

This is the crowning achievement of SPI-B - to get the victims of extortion to plead for their ransom to be increased. When the commanders at SAGE are advising caution we’ve really reached an inflection point.
What I find quite odd, but going with what I’ve said here before, is how events and developments in Australia so closely mirror those in the UK, despite vastly different experiences of the plague. In Australia we’ve had a virtual plague very like yours. So we had the “hyper infectious Delta variant” escaping from quarantine and causing half a dozen cases just as it was spreading in Bolton and there was talk of it not being so sensitive to vaccines. Now we have a total of about 200 cases in four states, with all but NSW dying out rapidly as it wasn’t hyper infectious at all, and the “cases” probably weren’t infective.(but we don’t say that)
So far there has been no mention of a single person going to hospital, leave alone dying. But there are now 200 “exposure sites” in Sydney, and 73,000 people went to get tested. They found 34 cases, but most were in quarantine or related to other cases.
But… vaccination clinics are overwhelmed, and we are told that children may need to be vaccinated as they are at risk ( of catching it), and the TGA is likely to approve the use of the Pfizer for children over 12 very soon.
Included in the report on last nights news with this story was a short word from the Commander in Chief himself, which I will attempt to attach herewith. Nope. Well Fauci said that it is important to get all adults vaccinated with 2 doses so that children are protected until they can also be vaccinated. The complete inverse of reality, where it is the children who should be infected so that they can spread the low level infection around and make their parents immune…
“America’s top infectious diseases expert”.
I must get in touch with Bruce Scott, who had taken his children away from school to protect them from it and the Covidians. …

1 Like
#11

Brilliantly put.

The lock step in problem-reaction-solution is either according to some external directive or the paradigm for the behaviour attributed, unfairly, to lemmings.

Iain Davis has a useful framework: the informed influencers (eg Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus and Bile Gates) are relatively few. They shape the discourse, potentially as directed by core conspirators, and then myriad deceived influencers push it out. While the fact checkers and 13th Signals and so on patrol the field with the rebuttal scripts and staged videos at the ready.

2 Likes
The Saker on Covid
#12

Well-precis-ed, K. That’s how I see it too: a blend of top-table crooks, their public-face manipulators, and thoroughly-suckered troo-bleevers also using their influence but mistakenly, all riding on the back of a ridiculously overblown, slightly-worse-than-average, possibly-tampered flu.

And once the deceived influencers and their general public victims have made their belief-investment in the scam, they’re keen to suppress any dissidence, because it makes them highly insecure, and therefore angry.

2 Likes
#13

Yes thanks Karen - an analysis worth remembering. The myriad of “deceived influencers” are the real problem as they all reinforce each others’ false beliefs and alternative views get simply swamped out. The core conspirators - like Fauci - have enormous influence, but can always fall from grace, or even be knocked off from it. It still amazes me how it has worked like a dream for these bastards, not quite automatically but with minimal strategic interference, so that now it is “public opinion” which dictates to the pollies the policies they intended to follow.
There is a long time journo who has a column in the Melbourne Age on Saturdays, who used to be a typical cynical guy. Now he’s grown up and has grand-kids, and wants to do something for their future. So he writes about how Aussies have always been supportive of child vaccinations, and also accepted a degree of adverse events. (what were they, from measles or polio? A sore arm? facial paralysis? Heart inflammation?) So for the sake of all of us and their future, we should all get vaxed and vax our children, and accept that some may “experience adverse effects”. He never, never mentions the fact that children don’t NEED vaccinating, as they are already effectively immune.

Just one thing Rhis - and I agree that the COVID is a bit worse than flu, though treatable and unlikely to be fatal with correct treatment, but the certain conclusion that it IS genetically engineered makes it a little different, and perhaps more dangerous than has been realised. I wonder if this is why the Russians and Iranians are also set on vaccinating their populations, albeit with safer and more broad spectrum vaccines. (the Iranians have developed their own killed virus type recently, and Khamenei vaccinated.) What emerged from the interview with Robert Malone on the Dark Horse was the danger posed by antibodies produced not just against the mRNA vax but against the virus itself, whose characteristics were a consequence and reflection of the Bat - RATG13 spike protein and the way it became detached from the virus particle.

No need to suppress dissidence here though - there isn’t any. And any contrary argument is just “anti-vaxxer disinformation” and a public menace.

1 Like
#14

That thought perhaps explains a lot for me as I really never could understand why they were so keen on the jab. Maybe you’ve hit the nail on the head.

#15

" but the certain conclusion that it IS genetically engineered makes it a little different, and perhaps more dangerous than has been realised. I wonder if this is why the Russians and Iranians are also set on vaccinating their populations, "

As PatB says, that may well be a reason the Russians and Iranians have taken it more seriously than the number of deaths and the age of the victims would justify. Another thing that always seemed very suspicious was how the leadership in Iran was affected very early on. Was that a coincidence? Has there ever been a good explanation why that happened?

#16

There are coincidences and correlations Willem… though the two are often the same. I could say that as soon as I heard that Iran was affected - almost the first country after China with no land border… it put suspicion on the source of the infection in both countries. Coming only weeks after the killing of Soleimani it also looked like a continuation of the attack, and there was more evidence in the fact that it started in Qum, and that the “race” of virus was different from Wuhan, as well as from the Italian strain. It was also highly suspect the way that the health minister caught the infection, only just after appearing on our TV screens for the first time to reassure the public - as if some infiltrator had left a blob of stuff on his mobile… And then revelling in the sight of him coughing on stage and having to withdraw.
I’ve never actually heard anyone espouse this theory, not helped by the apparent acceptance of the false Covid narrative by pro-Iranian and Iranian commentators. I often have the feeling that Iran has been infiltrated at a high level by foreign agents of influence, enabling attacks and assassinations to be carried out under their noses.

#17

Hi @Dimac

Is the sputnik v vaccine not basically the same as the Oxford one? Using an adenovirus to deliver spike DNA into a cell to generate antibodies?

#18

I thought that too and meant to check it, here is one reference confirming the point:

“ Adenovirus-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccine

A coronavirus vaccine known as ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 or AZD1222 was developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca to treat severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection (the cause of COVID-19). In this vaccine, a modified version of a chimpanzee adenovirus (ChAdOx1) is used which can enter human cells but not replicate inside. A gene for the coronavirus vaccine was added into the adenovirus DNA, allowing the vaccine to target the spike proteins that SARS-CoV-2 uses to enter human cells.

The vaccine was given emergency authorization by the UK in December 2020 of the pandemic, and India authorized a variation of it the same month. As of February 2021, versions of the vaccine produced in India and South Korea gained approval for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO), which should improve accessibility and ease of approval for other nations.

Other adenovirus-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccines in development include the Sputnik V vaccine and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine has now been given emergency approval by the FDA and cleared for emergency use in the US (February 2021) as part of the attempt to combat the COVID-19 pandemic.”

cheers

p.s. a lot of the side comments in the piece above come without justification if you go with the Virus Mania theories! :wink:

1 Like
#19

Yes my apologies - SputnikV is a vector-based recombinant DNA vaccine like Oxford AZ, except for two differences. It uses one human Adenovirus as a vector for the first shot, and a different human Adenovirus for the second, so as not to provoke an immune reaction - I think. When it was first announced I looked into these tech details and concluded it sounded reasonably safe and sensible, and confident in the Gamaleya institute which has a long record. But I have no information on whether SputnikV is responsible for any blood clot problems. I think J&J also uses a human Adenovirus, and has been found to cause the clots.
However I believe - with little actual evidence - that these types are broader spectrum in their action, provoking a T-cell response rather than producing antibodies. I’m sure that Russian scientists have done plenty of research and could give us details - in theory. Perhaps they are even out there. What i REALLY WISH - is that RT or Sputnik would ask these questions and take a position that backs us up - as in “question more”… I don’t like to think/admit that they are also restricted by authorities from investigating or revealing details we should know.
But they may also be restricted in saying anything that would feed the “anti-vax” fringe who believe the virus doesn’t really exist, and won’t be persuaded otherwise. They may be closer to the reality of the scamdemic, but their anti-science talk devalues the true science.
There is also “SPutnik light” - about which I know nothing. The Iranian home-made vaccine that Khamenei took is the safest killed-virus type, but the others they are developing are more technical, though not mRNA, which remains the main problem IMO.

1 Like