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Meanwhile in Israel

My observations FWIW. She seems full of hatred for the Palestinians and wants to destroy them. She calls them Nazis. Perhaps it is herself she hates. She’s become a Nazi. The Palestinians are now the untermenchen and the Jews are now in control. She said that bit about being in control in the interview. The Palestinians in Gaza are now the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto or the concentration camp. She is not. She is in control like the Nazis were in control of the Jews. She can do what ever she wants to them. She’s superior to the Palestinians like the Nazis were to the Jews. It’s the Palestinians that are the inferior ones now. The Jews have become the opposite of what they were and they feel safe now with their nuclear weapons and all the Western hierarchy standing behind them and supporting them no matter how badly they behave. Perhaps this is what Jung meant when he talked about the process of the enantiodromia?

I’m also reminded of Norman Finklestein’s uncanny collection of pictures which showed Nazis in the 1930’s doing bad things to Jews all the way down the left hand column and the Israelis in modern times doing the same bad things to Palestinians all the way down the right hand column.

Enantiodromia:

I use the term enantiodromia for the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time. C.G. Jung (1949)
In the philosophy of Heraclitus it [enantiodromia] is used to designate the play of opposites in the course of events—the view that everything that exists turns into its opposite….
C.G. Jung (1949)

More here:

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Thanks for these insights. Deep psychology going on there, a bit deep for me. At a simplisic level it’s abused turned abuser I guess.

More on Nazis…just listening to the BBC news. Netanhayu quoted - not in an angry/fake emotional outburst but as a reasoned comparison. The best comparion was with the Nazis, he said. Followed by ‘The PM Richie Sunak gives full support to Israel’. Against the Nazis, presumably.

I think that’s become a bit more of a BBC thing. They probably make more token gestures towards balance in response to gauged criticism, giving something to point to against accusations of blanket bias.
But who you quote or invite to speak (and how freely they are allowed to speak, as in the Sky doormat performance above) is another way of poisoning the well; let them take the brunt. Just say ‘humanitarian’ or ‘civilians’ once or twice.
I expect it’s become a bit of an MO, if not even a science. Endorsement and promotion by the pattern of routine invitation and silence.

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Hi folks, I just caught this from a TLN post:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-uk-sunak-message-slaughter-carry-on

Sunak and Starmer slither around the accusations of Israeli genocide as the death toll of just Palestinian children reaches 1500!

I can no longer follow this horrific massacre, my heart goes out to Palestinians everywhere. For the UK I just have one question - how could anyone vote Tory or Labour in any election ever again?

cheers

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For all the sad bastards you know who still don’t get it:

Its terrific, they pack in so much! As for all the sad bastards who think its a good idea to vote at all. . . .

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Ouch.

Still, everybody likes a bastard;)

My main problem with the ‘lesser evil’ question is telling who it is

All the same predators. Tories are wolves, the rest are foxes and weasels. Brutality, cunning or hypnosis, policy stays the same.

Take NATO. Who politically is against them? Anyone? This alone destroys the greens credentials.

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Apart from us?? The rest of the non-English-speaking world I should think. Russia springs to mind!

Oh, and almost all the African nations and most of South America. Let’s not forget those fence sitters like two of the most populous nations on earth. I’m sure you knew that but for any readers who don’t post I had to add it.

Even the “i” is streets ahead of the warmongering BBC, which seems to have been told to preface every mention of Israeli killing of Gazans with the attack on 7 Oct, and statements from fello-genocodophiles like Sunak and Biden about Israel’s right to defend itself by continuing to flatten Gaza and it’s occupants.
ED

24/10/23 i morning briefing: Why aren’t Britain and the US demanding a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas? By Jacqui Housden
As Rishi Sunak sought to update the House of Commons yesterday on the outcome of his recent trip to Israel, a number of MPs used the moment to make impassioned calls for a ceasefire. Tory MP Crispin Blunt, a co-director of the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians, said it was a “watershed moment” between a “killing field in Gaza” or “a ceasefire and the opportunity to bring necessary aid there”. Scottish First Minister Humza Yousaf spoke with reporters to deliver a plea from his wife, whose family are in Gaza “not to just ask for the border to be opened, but to demand that the Rafah Crossing is opened and there’s a ceasefire right now”. The calls came on the same day that Israel allowed 200 journalists to witness horrific bodycam footage of the Hamas terror attacks on 7 October, and also as it intensified its bombing campaign of the enclave. It’s not yet clear when Israel might launch a full ground invasion. “We want to bring Hamas to a state of full dismantling,” Israeli Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Herzi Halevi said on Monday. “The path is a path of unrelenting attacks, damaging Hamas everywhere and in every way.” International diplomacy efforts have been focused on securing the passage of humanitarian aid into the region as the situation there becomes extremely dire. But while Mr Sunak and Joe Biden are clear on the need for food and medicines for the 2.2 million residents of Gaza, they’re not currently advocating for a ceasefire. Why? We’ll take a look, after the headlines.

What have international leaders said about a ceasefire?

Who is calling for a ceasefire? So far 73 British MPs have signed a parliamentary motion calling for an immediate ceasefire. Last week the UN chief António Guterres called for a “humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza, and the UN high commissioner for human rights, Volker Turk, has also called for one to allow more aid in. The UN fears without fuel, which has not been part of the aid sent in so far, hospitals and other essential services will be without power.A number of EU leaders are also set to back a “pause” in fighting in a confidential draft statement seen by The Telegraph. The paper also says that the EU’s top diplomat, Josep Borrell, has argued that a halt to bombing would allow more time to negotiate with Hamas for the release of hostages. Yesterday Irish deputy premier Micheal Martin reiterated Ireland’s call for a ceasefire, saying it was a matter of “utmost urgency, the loss of life is enormous, is at a scale that has to be stopped.” Last week the UN Security Council failed to adopt a resolution proposed by Russia, which called for a “humanitarian ceasefire”, but also failed to specifically condemn the attacks by Hamas. China has also attempted to cast itself as a mediator for peace, but is yet to explicitly rebuke Hamas. Overnight, China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi told Israel’s Eli Cohen the conflict was a “major choice between war and peace”.

What have Sunak and Biden said? Both leaders have been keen to stress Israel’s right to defend itself, but Mr Biden has also been clear that no further steps can be taken on efforts to negotiate a ceasefire until Hamas releases all of the hostages. Yesterday Rishi Sunak, responding to Crispin Blunt, said: “It is difficult to tell Israel to have a ceasefire when it is still facing rocket fire on an almost daily basis, and when its citizens are still being held hostage and it has suffered an appalling terrorist attack where it has a right to defend itself. But as I have said it is important that that is done in accordance with international law and it’s important that Israel takes every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians.” He also told Labour’s Zarah Sultana, who is demanding an immediate ceasefire as well as condemnation of Israel, that: “There is a significant difference between a terrorist organisation that deliberately and specifically targeted… killing, mutilation and murder of innocent civilians including children and women and babies a couple of weeks ago, and Israel’s lawful right to defend itself and go after those perpetrators.” The US president has made clear that Washington will not consider backing a ceasefire until all kidnapped hostages are released. “We should have those hostages released and then we can talk,” Mr Biden told reporters on Monday. And White House national security spokesman John Kirby told CNN: ” I thought the message was pretty clear to Hamas: ‘release all the hostages’. That needs to be the first move here. We don’t believe that this is the time for a ceasefire. Israel has a right to defend themselves. They still have work to do to go after Hamas leadership.” State Department spokesman Mathew Miller also said: “What we will continue to do, with respect to this question, is focus on getting humanitarian assistance in to Gaza.”

What happens now? Today the UN Security Council meets on the conflict, where a US-drafted resolution on the conflict is expected to be voted on. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is said to be attending the meeting, along with the foreign minister of Israel, the Palestinians, Iran, Jordan, France and Brazil. According to the Associated Press, the text was still being negotiated late on Monday. However reports say it will call for the release of the hostages Hamas is holding and emphasise Israel’s right to defend itself. It is also expected to urge Iran to stop exporting arms to militias and terrorist groups in the region. The AP says the resolution urges respect for international laws on conducting war and protecting civilians, urges all countries to intensify efforts to prevent a spillover, and demands immediate humanitarian access to Gaza. According to Axios, it does not call for a ceasefire. Russia is expected to veto it.

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Not so Talk Radio! Heard Mike Graham and Kevin O’Dullivan this morning - they were talking about Hamas atrocities in quite some details - Graham was saying that he can’t bring himself to watch the videos that the Israelis released to the press, but then proceeded to describe them in gruesome detail - all of which really excited the bloodlust in O’Dullivan - cue vile calls for ‘retribution’, and lies about Hamas preventing civilians from leaving Northern Gaza - and effective claims that those remaining in areas earmarked for ‘retaliatory strikes’ have only themselves to blame - - clearly ignorant of the targeting of the Rafah crossing (or at least, ‘it doesn’t look like anything to me’). Degenerates, the pair of them, and pretty much the entire cast of Talk Radio.

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Not sure how relevant this is directly to Israel, but I saw 2 B1 bombers approaching Fairford earlier today. Flightradar showed they did not have transponders on.

These are rare planes, and serious cold war kit.

Hi folks, I have in the recent past lauded certain pieces coming from The Conservative Woman but ever since 7th October it appears to have been taken over by Tory loony bots here’s one of them - the first page of comments follow the same line slavishly afaics-
I enclose this as an example of Israeli genocide denial :

  • if the slaughter of over 2,000 Palestinian children, the deaths and injuries of thousands of others and the threat of mass ethnic cleansing by a State Terrorist like Israel can be ignored by so many in the West why is this not the same as holocaust denial in principle?

Cheers

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Not ‘the same as’, CJ. Its the very definition. And not in principle but in fact, truth and reality.

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Hi @AlanG , I was just thinking about the difference in numbers.

Cheers

I haven’t watched the original Tariq Ali video posted by @admin that began this long thread. However, I found this a decent summary of the situation.

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