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Look at Ottawa: Is this the start of widespread popular uprising - by actually-healthy contagion?

Renegades vs NWO
#41

I would say that many supporters who are not there, and perhaps most who are there on the ground don’t want anything to do with politics. But the organizers certainly do (or did - they withdrew this MOU demand yesterday. Here’s some text from their Memorandum of Understanding, stating their demand that the Senate and Givernor General of Canada bypass the elected parliament and end mandates. Sorry if the formatting is funny.

“By having the Senate of Canada and the Governor General of Canada sign this MOU into action, they agree
to immediately cease and desist all unconstitutional, discriminatory and segregating actions and human
rights violations. It calls for an immediate instruction to all levels of the Federal, Provincial, Territorial and
Municipal governments to not only stop but furthermore waive all SARS-CoV-2 (and not limited to SARS-
CoV-2 subsequent variations) fines that have been issued and imposed upon its citizens, institutions, and
private enterprises. Further, to immediately re-instate all employees in all branches of all levels of
governments and not limited to promote the same to the private industry and institutional sectors
employees with full lawful employment rights prior to wrongful and unlawful dismissals. Lastly it instructs
all levels of government and private Sector that the Illegal use of a Vaccine Passport to cease and desist
immediately.”

Regarding the GoFundMe, there is no way that $10 million was collected in one week from donations from ordinary people in Canada. And there is no way that ordinary Canadians were giving any more than a few of the $10k+ donations that were showing up. I am all for Canada going in the direction that Canadians want it to, even if it’s a direction that I might not like. But I am horrified at the thought of right wing libertarians from the US interfering our our domestic affairs.

#42

Here’s a link to the MOU. Sure, they’ve withdrawn it but what kind of people dream up something like this in the first place?

https://canada-unity.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Combined-MOU-Dec03.pdf?

#43

Trudeau has not handled this well at all imo.

#44

But you’ll post it anyway.

#45

I might have missed something heinous…what was wrong with it - seemed like calling for law to be respected and human rights enforced.
It’s a moot point whether the restrictions are unlawful, probably are. It maybe went farther than the truckers mandate issue, I guess.

“But I am horrified at the thought of right wing libertarians from the US interfering our our domestic affairs.”

Why would you object if someone else supports them. I’m pretty sure that principled donations from the left would be gratefully accepted.
Jackie though you say the mandates are stupid etc, it doesn’t sound like you think the truckers have a right to do what they’re doing.

I also don’t get how you think Trudeau, implementing a tyrannical policy of…at least… enriching billionaires, can be anything other than right wing; or why millions of people moaning about a strike without acknowledging the strikers’ legitimate grievances can represent ‘the left’. They seem to be complaining that ‘the right’ have stolen their old clothes!

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#46

Anyone who puts Dr Hodgkinson in front of a camera gets an automatic pass :slightly_smiling_face:

#47

Great clip!

#48

Both the Senate and the Governor General are unelected. This group proposes to come in and bypass elected representatives to overturn government policy. Is that how we’re going to do it now?

Re Trudeau, I have never voted for the party he represents but I have thought of him as a decent person, especially compared to many of the people in the current conservative parties. I hate his and his party’s relationship with and unwavering support for Israel. I was dismayed when they brought in the vaccine mandate for federal employees just before last fall’s general election - which they won (minority gov’t) with mandates in their platform. I haven’t checked out the WEF yet.

Many of your other questions are addressed in my TLN post today:
A couple things about the Ottawa protest. It’s called a truckers’ protest and trucks are the defining physical feature. But it’s not organized by truckers. It is organized by people out of the oil and gas sector in western Canada. They are workers and they work very hard with three week on, one week off stints in remote work camps (or some variation of the on/off schedule). They are not poor; they’re very well paid as long as they’re employed. A lot of them fly in and out from other parts of Canada.

The organizers come from a sector that denies that humans are responsible for climate change. They do not want a move away from fossil fuels and are against putting a price on carbon. There is deep anger, sustained for at least 5 decades, at any attempt by the federal government to control the energy sector. They believe that the rest of the country mooches ungratefully off the wealth created by their labour, and they very much resent it.

The energy sector out west has extensive ties to the US energy sector and many of the workers hold libertarian ideas that are prominent in the US.

Another aspect of the Ottawa and other truck protests in Canada is that they are aligned with and I believe drawing funding from US and other international conservatives. I don’t believe that the $11+ million collected in their GoFundMe campaign, which has been shut down and replaced by other crowd funding, was collected from ordinary Canadians. Donations of $500 and less, and some of the bigger ones, would have come from regular people. But I assume that most of the $10K and larger donations are coming from people and groups, many from outside the country, who want a lot more than the lifting of vaccine mandates. At the risk of over simplifying, I would say that the people and groups in the shadows are part of the international Trump movement.

We had a federal election in Canada in September, 5 months ago. The governing party won with vaccine mandates as part of its platform. Voter turnout was about 62% and they won a minority of seats with a low percentage of the popular vote. So the election didn’t repair any divisions or really change anything at all beyond hardening positions and leading into this country wide protest against vaccine mandates.

Even the Teamsters are saying it’s not a truckers’ protest.
https://teamsters.ca/en/blog/2022/02/07/the-real-enemy-for-truckers-is-covid-19/

#49

Would you be against any strike against a government, then? Doesn’t sound very ‘left’.

They weren’t elected to suspend democracy, abolish human rights, breach the constitution with likely illegal mandates, sack everybody who disagrees, hijack the security forces against the people (Corporal Bulford explains about that), and assault people’s bodies.
So why would someone on the left choose to side with the government here, in this of ALL disputes? They are attacking (assaulting) working people, and those people are trying to defend themselves.

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#50

Jackie, are you aware that very often union leadership does not represent the opinions or the interests of the rank and file? This is especially true of the Teamsters whose leadership in the past was very often connected to/controlled by organized crime.

Also, I wonder if you have thought through very carefully your habitual use of political definitions in order to justify your disagreement. You say ‘right wing’ ‘conservative’ ‘right wing libertarian’ etc, as if you think using those words ‘prove’ something.

Please think about this a moment: what if you were defined, based on your posts here, as ‘Stalinist’, ‘Authoritarian’, ‘Collaborator with the Oppressors’ ‘anti Democracy’ or even ‘extreme right wing’? One could look through your posts and find some things you said and then define you in that way. If one did that, would it refute your representation of reality? Would it justify not listening to what you say?

Surely you realize that every challenge to authority is met with definitions used to de-legitimize the challenger?

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#51

I know nothing and my opinions are flaky. I’m not a revolutionary. I want peace, order and good government. That seems not to be possible. I’ll leave this discussion to others who are more sure of themselves.

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#52

Good idea to state what you’re for, but what do you want for the truckers?
Sorry if it’s been a bit too intense. Probably you are just the kind of person the truckers need to win over en masse. That’s my excuse anyway!
Only @PP knows whether 5Filters is a key world influencer. We’ve not been slandered yet by CCDC so probably not :slightly_smiling_face:
Cheers

#53

I hope you will reconsider and not leave the discussion and keep telling us your opinion, as you are there and we are not. However not all of us will agree with you all the time, which is normal, right?

#54

Just to return to Rhis’s original question:

“Is this the start of widespread popular uprising - by actually-healthy contagion?”

Looks like the vaccine is failing to prevent the spread of …trucker convoys.

European and Australian truckers are joining the Freedom Convoy!

#55

Agreed @JackieL it’s very hurtful and intentionally so. I may, in fact I do, think unkind thoughts about masked people but since I’ve no way of knowing their reasons it would be just as rude to articulate those (very fleeting) thoughts as it would be for them to try and bully me into wearing one.

But popular rhetoric used by so-called leaders has tended to encourage some people to think they can insult “ignorant” non-compliers so I can understand why people react with spiteful words like “cuck”.

What divisive times we live in, such a shame.

I appreciate the dialogue here, polarised as it can be, it encourages better understanding.

#56

…playing “soccer” for the Hammers…?

#57

:slight_smile:
Indeed, he still is :frowning:

#58

I agree. There are insults aplenty from all sides. Very unpleasant and unproductive but that’s where we are.

I am particularly sensitive to the ones that undermine and harm women’s place in society, like this one.

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#59

The parallel with the scald’s bridle is uncomfortable to say the least

EDIT: Scold, not scald, but quite appropriate in the context of heated words. Fervently hoping for some sanity to be restored