After a Jan. hol., JMGreer returns with a great 3Feb. post

Contains another endorsement of how reliable ‘The Limits To Growth’ has proven, and continues to prove, as a map to the - real - near future. (Take another look at that famous graph!)

I’d make only one small quibble: John writes at one point: “maybe another set of human bootprints on the Moon?” I’m sure he knows about the arguments that the US never got men onto the Moon last century; that it was all a huge media con, because NASA realised that it couldn’t solve the basic problems within Kennedy’s time-frame - or at all, for that matter. I don’t know what JM thinks about that. But I’d be inclined to amend his phrase thus: “…maybe another - or perhaps a first - set of human bootprints on the Moon?” since it’s clear that the intractable temperature and hard-radiation problems which make the first - alleged - Moon landings seem somewhat doubtful haven’t been solved noticeably in the interim.

John isn’t infallible, of course. For example, he thinks that UFOs can all be explained with ‘normal’ rationales. He’s simply dead wrong about that - which is odd for one so deeply steeped in the realm of what’s called the paranormal. He is a veteran practitioner of Ceremonial Magic, after all, with plenty of personal accounts of the astonishing non-ordinary - but plainly objectively real - experiences which such disciplines confer - eventually - on committed practitioners.

But that apart, an essay up to JMG’s usual high standard. The btl conversation is interesting too.

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Yes, a good post. I would add one quibble to your two, he keeps referring to the “far-left” in the democratic party.

Might as well refer to the unicorns of the democratic party!

Quibbles aside, it’s fascinating to look at how the world of 2020 was imagined back in the 80’s and where we actually are.

Incidentally, I only just read his end of year essay yesterday. I’m not sure if that’s been posted but it’s worth another read, I think.

Cheers
PP

Incidentally, on the UFO subject, I watched this documentary a few months ago and find it really interesting

Obviously a must-see vid, P. Thanks for the headsup. Below is a link to an hour video interview with the director, James Fox, on making his documentary. Clearly he has a whole lot more material of equally potent effect which he couldn’t get into ‘The Phenomenon’, because of length constraints. He speaks of that being the basis of a proposed mini-series.

His assertion that the UFO subject is finally getting away from its loony-circuit image, and coming out into the open, is my estimate too.

At about the 42 minute mark, in response to a question from the live zoom audience, he begins a most interesting dialogue with the interviewer about what he really thinks these strange events are. Are they ET visitors, or what? His reply tallies with my front-runner hypothesis about them: that they are manifestations of - as he says - a powerful, omnipresent intelligence (hint: think Tom Campbell’s ‘Larger Consciousness System’, which carefully scientifically-neutral language of Tom’s I abbreviate these days by the more contentious name of ‘Big Mind’, and which religiously-devout attendees at Tom’s live lectures have told him in conversation sits very comfortably with their idea of God.)

James also asserts that the UFOs are also “nuts and bolts” physical objects: that the solid material craft testified by such as USAF pilot David Fravor are indeed real solid things, not just visual illusions. I agree with that too. But I’d just point out that that doesn’t mean - necessarily - that they came from Alpha Centauri, or from a secret factory somewhere in Russia or China. Which, btw, I suspect that the PTsB in the US have also concluded lately, because of the sheer astonishing capabilities of these physical objects, for which no state-power on Earth has any remotely capable technology. For this reason, I suspect, the US PTsB have relaxed the extreme secrecy under which the information on this matter has been kept, and which they now feel easier about releasing to the public.

Can I suggest that readers of this post look up our conversation on the nearby thread on ‘the hard science of reincarnation’, and the ideas which I precis there. If you blend Ken Batcheldor’s sitter-group-produced, constantly-repeated demonstrations - sic! - of flamboyant, all-capable PK incidents, conjured ‘by the pound’ pretty nearly on demand, with Tom Campbell’s often-repeated assertion about why we - humankind - get these universally-attested, constantly-recurring manifestations of non-ordinary ‘impossible’ and ‘miraculous’ encounters, you may find that this blending is a fruitful juxtaposition. As Tom puts it: “It’s the Larger Consciousness System giving us little nudging reminders, saying ‘Wake up! Realise that the world is a much more extraordinary reality than we tend to think, and it needs to be seen so, if we are to fulfil our basic high purpose in being here, doing our - repeated - life-times’”. The encounters are manifested to jolt us out of our absent-minded non-mindfulness! :slight_smile:

Regarding the big-eyed ‘Greys’ who in some instances are seen to come out of the UFOs, and who, if you take Whitley Strieber’s books seriously, as I do, will sometimes even go so far as to abduct people and perform strange operations on them, then can I remind sceptics that materialising mediums (qv) have always demonstrated this ability to conjure up physical manifestations of apparently-live ‘visitors’, in their seances; and that I have actually witnessed myself a small instance of that - a materialised and then de-materialised human hand - in one of Ken’s sessions. I have never personally witnessed a full-body materialisation of an apparently live, warm, breathing creature - human or other - but the psi-research literature of the past century or so is replete with accounts of just such incidents; particularly when materialising mediums are visited by bereaved punters wanting news and comfort about their lost loved-ones. It happens. Quite a bit, in fact, in the discreet sub-culture where such talented shamans work. So conjuring the Greys - or imps, goblins, golems. tulpas and so on, as older cultures have called them - is no big stretch.

But even their brief physical manifestation doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve travelled from Alpha Centauri. That’s just them adopting the appropriate protective-colouring fancy dress which makes them more seeable to modern, star-trek-sci-fi-marinated minds.

On the question of why there has been such a flurry of striking UFO manifestations in recent times, and why they’ve demonstrated such astonishing abilities as the complete incapacitation of an entire nuclear ICBM base in the US, can I just point out that the Earth really is flying into a grand crisis in our time, including all the non-human lives that we are pulling along with us; and that Big Mind is vividly aware of this, and would be quite pleased if we ‘woke up’ to what we’ve doing, and changed course; and that the ‘miraculous’ ability to do that potently and effectively is - literally - right at our finger-tips. Basically, it’s us, as integral parts of Big Mind, who are doing the magic, just to help wake ourselves up. This, I suspect, is why so many people are having close encounters with UFOs right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSRgC1zAoIE

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Thanks for that, RG - watching it now. One reason I tend to agree that UFOs are as much events of the psyche as they are physical is how these craft have changed from the early descriptions from the 50’s. If these really are the craft of a mega-advanced alien civilisation (perhaps 1-10 million years more advanced than humans), then I really wouldn’t expect them to “upgrade” their interstellar craft over the last few decades. Something is wrong with this picture… Our own mental picture of technology, however, has most certainly changed over the last 50 years.

I think that TC is probably onto something with his LCS hypothesis. The evidence indicating that we are living in some kind of simulated reality seems to be growing. TC himself is currently in the process of trying to perform a set of these experiments himself - I’ve been waiting on the results for a good while now. I don’t really understand the full extent of what exactly the LCS is, and whether or how it fits into an Even Larger Consciousness System (ELCS?). Plenty of research left for me to do.

Incidentally, Terrence McKenna also agreed that the UFO experience is closer to the psychedelic experience than it is to a regular “physical” or everyday experience. As did some of the transpersonal psychologists. It does make me wonder what these “nuts and bolts” devices are. The kind of propulsion engine that Bob Lazar said he worked on in Area 51 is a really interesting conundrum. Or as the late Robert Anton Wilson used to call them, a mindfuck.

And I’m only starting out on the journey of exploring what people have been saying about ancient alien visitations and the proto-civilisations that led to the ancient Sumerians.

Interesting times we’re living in here!
Cheers
PP

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Damn’ right, P! Interesting, because Western man (man in particular; women have always had more sense, but had to keep it under wraps) is reclaiming the old birthright of all humans (of all Individuated Units of Consciousness, actually, whatever body-form they happen to be running) of intimate contact with the intuitive faculty, as well as with the rational faculty which got so disproportionately overblown during the West’s Age of Reason.

Regarding the ‘nuts and bolts’: Remember that, when a non-ordinary or ‘miraculous’ paranormal event happens, any physical objects involved are exempted for the moment from being bound by the ordinary laws of physical reality. They can flash about at ‘impossible’ speeds, doing ‘impossible’ stunts, because the iron rule of the laws has been relaxed - locally, for a short while - by Big Mind, pursuing its purpose of giving us a ‘wake-up’ jolt. ‘Physical things’ then don’t necessarily have to abide by what the laws insist on normally. And it’s all happening in a virtual reality anyway, remember, so the rendering function of Big Mind can present whatever sense data to us that it wants.

I’ve found that about fifteen years of contemplating the implications of Tom’s Big TOE have begun to let me see how - as he says - all the historically-observed phenomena of paranormality are beautifully integrated by the TOE’s proposed worldview. Grasping this does require a dis-indoctrination period, though, to free ourselves sufficiently from the steely hyper-materialist myth-stories which currently-orthodox scientism teaches us in our sponge-it-all-up childhood, before our fifteenth birthdays. Such deeply conditioned reflexes take a good deal of work to relax them sufficiently. I still speak French better than any other of my foreign languages, because I started learning it at 11! :slight_smile:

And yes indeed, the way the physical vehicles of the UFO incidents have developed since the mid twentieth century, in step with our sophisticating technologies, does indeed lend credibility to the proposal that they’re all mind-generated anyway, wearing whatever fancy dress our current conception of hitech prefers… :slight_smile: In an earlier age, we’d have been perceiving them as djinns flying fiery chariots…

Castenada too reports that don Juan asserted that he personally had no idea how his students would perceive the non-ordinary events generated for their education by don Gennaro, because each of them would have different conditioned expectations, and would therefore perceive Gennaro’s conjurations very differently.

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PS: Forgot to add: regarding Tom’s current set of delayed-erasure double-slit experiments: It’s a race against time for him - and me - in our current incarnations: Will the experiments yield the results that we expect in time, before we snuff our current lives, so that Tom is then able to lay another strikingly-pretty feather on the scales favouring philosophical idealism over philosophical materialism? (Cue galloping music)

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"Incidentally, Terrence McKenna* also agreed that the UFO experience is closer to the psychedelic experience than it is to a regular “physical” or everyday experience. As did some of the transpersonal psychologists. It does make me wonder what these “nuts and bolts” devices are. The kind of propulsion engine that Bob Lazar said he worked on in Area 51 is a really interesting conundrum. Or as the late Robert Anton Wilson* used to call them, a mindfuck.

And I’m only starting out on the journey of exploring what people have been saying about ancient alien visitations and the proto-civilisations that led to the ancient Sumerians."

*Dead of psychedelic excess…
*Illuminatus…Thelemite…

Those clunky devices from the 40s and 50s are real… we sell our ancestors (and ourselves), so short by following the non-Genesis story (who created these godlike aliens?), …science has been emasculated by allowing the atom to dominate…it’s a loss-leader…Trace it back…how is it that Crowley performed his dark magics at the same time that the “dark-magic” of the atom manifested? Ask a magus!!! Since then consciousness has been dominated by a foul oath-breaking credo…credo…credo…

"Big Bang took and shook the world… " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpIPavrC214

This is the “science” that informs our stock markets…eugenics is part of this… they are the dark arts… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQgu0MpnKq8&feature=emb_logo #Emergence #Schumacher #NeilPeartRIP You see; “words matter” not “matter words”… Oh those “emancipated” Victorians…so much so (boys and girls), that we still have a monarchy!

Hi @GKH

So are you saying that you think these early flying saucers were experimental vehicles created by us? I’m somewhat sceptical but open if you have more info.

Also I’m not sure that any link was demonstrated between poor old TM’s brain tumor and his use of psychedelics. Especially as mushrooms (his preferred route) have been shown to be be very safe, and DMT likewise.

Cheers

“DMT likewise” His brother synthesised crystal DMT…I think you’ll find (in his brother’s book), that the bio-chemist is trying to deal with those demons … “are you saying that you think these early flying saucers were experimental vehicles created by us?” Oh yes…I’m afraid so, also, unlike rocketry, the technology would seem to have gone to all the Allies… https://www.arafel.co.uk/2015/09/forbidden-history-and-reich-of-black-sun.html it now informs all of the Deep State and included, I deeply suspect, what remained of the NAZI eugenics programme (mainly in S.America). The Operation Highjump, New Swabia*, Admiral Richard E Byrd story is ridiculous, it’s urban legend**, yet it would appear to have happened (and just before Roswell).

*New Swabia in the Antarctic was real, it is in the German archives.
**The truly weird thing about NAZI “urban legends” (incl. the S.America - bio-weapons/eugenics connection), is that they would appear to be true. I mean check out …

Hans Kemmler

"Frank Döbert and Rainer Karlsch
August 2019

Immediately after the end of World War II, the victorious powers began to interrogate the functional elites of the National Socialist state. When the question came to the German V-weapons programs, jet fighters and underground armament factories, the name of Hans Kammler was mentioned again and again. In the final phase of the war, the SS Obergruppenfuehrer and head of the Office of Unit C of the Economic Administration Main Office of the SS had been given far-reaching competences for the production and use of the latest weapons. The Allies were aware of Kammler, even though they knew far from everything about his “underground shadow realm,” his role in the Holocaust and the mass use of concentration camp inmates in construction projects. They searched intensively for him, but, according to the standard narrative until only a few years ago, came too late. Kammler had allegedly evaded his culpability and committed suicide in Bohemia on 9 May 1945. Doubts about this account, however, were never completely silenced, especially since his body was never located and all personal documents remained missing. Gerald Fleming, a leading Holocaust researcher, wanted certainty but could not find sufficient evidence to prove that the suicide narrative was not true. Fleming urged us not to let the story rest but to continue the research. [1]

In the article „Ein inszenierter Selbstmord. Überlebte Hitlers „letzter Hoffnungsträger“, SS Obergruppenführer Hans Kammler den Krieg? [A staged suicide. Did Hitler’s “Last Hopeful,” SS Obergruppenfuehrer Hans Kammler, Survive the War?], published in the Zeitschrift für Geschichtswissenschaft in 2014, for the first time declassified documents and statements were presented which suggest that Hans Kammler was captured by the Counterintelligence Corps, an American military intelligence service." https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/hans-kammler-hitlers-last-hope-american-hands

"The Western Group of ships reached the Marquesas Islands on December 12, 1946, whereupon the Henderson and Cacapon set up weather monitoring stations. By December 24, the Currituck had begun launching aircraft on reconnaissance missions.

The Eastern Group of ships reached Peter I Island in late December 1946.

On December 30, 1946 the Martin PBM-5 George 1 crashed on Thurston Island killing Ensign Maxwell A. Lopez, ARM1 Wendell K. Henderson, and ARM1 Frederick W. Williams. The other 6 crew members were rescued 13 days later. These and Vance N. Woodall, who died on January 21, 1947, were the only fatalities during Operation Highjump.

On January 1, 1947, Lieutenant Commander Thompson and Chief Petty Officer Dixon utilized “Jack Browne” masks and DESCO Oxygen rebreathers to log the first dive by Americans under the Antarctic.[4] Paul Allman Siple, Ph.D. was the senior U.S. War Department representative on the expedition. Dr. Siple was the same Eagle Scout who accompanied Admiral Byrd on the previous Byrd Antarctic expeditions.[5][6]

The Central Group of ships reached the Bay of Whales on January 15, 1947, where they began construction of Little America IV.[7]

Naval ships and personnel were withdrawn back to the United States in late February 1947, and the expedition was terminated." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Highjump

“The Roswell UFO incident in popular lore refers to the rumors and speculation regarding a July 1947 United States Army Air Forces balloon crash at a ranch near Roswell, New Mexico.[1][2] Following local press interest in debris gathered from the crash site, and rumors that the debris came from a “flying disc”, the US military stated that the crashed object was merely a conventional weather balloon.[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z6Zc2a9-yw

“Aliens” became the cover story…this lead to the Majestic Twelve, Eisenhower’s famous “warning” speech and (a recent publication speculates), the assassination of JFK… (did Blair know that Smith had been assassinated?), …

"Admiral Byrd revealed in a press interview that Task Force 68 had encountered a new enemy that could fly from pole to pole at incredible speeds.

Admiral Byrd’s statements were published in the Chilean Press but never publicly confirmed by US authorities. Indeed Byrd did not speak again to the Press about Operation Highjump, leaving it for researchers to speculate for decades over what really happened, and why Byrd was silenced. After the Soviet collapse in 1991, the KGB released previously classified files that cast light on the mysterious Byrd led Naval expedition to Antarctica. A 2006 Russian documentary, recently translated, made public for the first time a 1947 secret Soviet intelligence report commissioned by Joseph Stalin of Task 68’s mission to Antarctica. The intelligence report, gathered from Soviet spies embedded in the US, revealed that the US Navy had sent the military expedition to find and destroy a hidden Nazi base. On the way, they encountered a mysterious UFO force that attacked the military expedition destroying several ships and a significant number of planes. Indeed, Operation Highjump had suffered many casualties as stated in initial press reports from Chile" https://galnet.fandom.com/wiki/Did_US_Navy_battle_UFOs_protecting_Nazi_Antarctic_sanctuary_in_1947%3F #TruthisStrangerthanFiction

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Fascinating thread. I tend to agree that the manifestations have a pronounced tendency to resemble contemporary tech, but this is very probably because the terms used to describe close encounters will be culturally framed. If balloons tend to be the cutting edge of tech then balloon-like objects it be.

I grew up in Warminster and dad was a spotter with Arthur Shuttlewood’s posse for a while.

He was a keen fisherman and saw some strange stuff in the wee small hours.

For a proper mindfuck go read the Diamond Sutra. Some amazing parallels with PK Dick’s VALIS. (The more time goes by the more convinced I become that PKD literally saw the future. It doesn’t seem so much of a stretch to hypothesise that contemporary Foo sightings might be terrestrial tech bending the parameters of time.)

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“…bending the parameters of time” If they do that too much more (such as in an even bigger collider), I’m very much afraid they might break it #Feynman!

G, you’ll have to quote other sources than Wikideceivia, if you want me even to look at them. Deceivia is an absolute, non-negotiable no-no; especially on ANYTHING the smallest bit contentious. I don’t even consult it for non-contentious matters. I’ve dumped it completely and forever.

PS: Regarding those hidden nazi technologies that are supposed to be in the hands of all current deep states: I’d say of them as I’d say of Judy Woods’ ‘directed energy weapons’: let’s see just one demonstrable, working example; not just imagineers’ inspiring pictures; actual working machines. Then I’ll take them seriously. Till then, they remain in the ‘Genuinely unlikely conspiracies’ folder… :slight_smile:

Well I can’t help that…you will find all the same stuff elsewhere… …and I only mention the Schaubergian research not “directed energy weapons”…even so, quote; "Space Weapons

Quote; “It may seem like science fiction but American and Russians scientists have been investigating lazer and particle beam weapons* for years”…“Powerful beams of sub-atomic particles” BBC video, go to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-35132820/reagan-s-star-wars

*Italics mine.

Quote; "WASHINGTON — The Pentagon Monday announced the successful space test of an experimental beam weapon in what “Star Wars” program officials called a major milestone for the anti-missile system.
The neutral particle beam accelerator was launched into space from White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico last Thursday and operated for four minutes, officials said, sending out pulses of energy. Military scientists hope that such energy pulses one day will be capable of destroying incoming enemy missiles.

The neutral particle beam is one of three “directed energy” weapons being developed by the “Star Wars” program, formally known as the Strategic Defense Initiative. The others are free-electron lasers and chemical lasers.

Long-Term Projects

All are long-term development projects that are not expected to be deployed until well into the 21st Century, if future administrations support the program and Congress is willing to fund it.

“The particle beam worked perfectly. That’s a major engineering achievement,” Air Force Col. Thomas Meyer, director of SDI’s energy office, said at a Pentagon news conference Monday.
The 24-foot, 3,500-pound beam accelerator was launched to an altitude of 125 miles on a Minuteman 2 rocket. It was the first time that the device had been tested in space.
The accelerator creates an energized beam of hydrogen atoms carrying no electrical charge. SDI scientists explained that the beam is created by powerful accelerators propelling negative atoms that are stripped of their extra electron as the beam emerges from the device at nearly the speed of light.
Meyer said that the beam does not burn through metal but rather penetrates the warhead and then releases its energy. “We call them proton torpedoes*,” he said." Go to: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-18/news/mn-4091_1_beam-weapon For full article.

*Italics mine

Quote; “Documentary investigating the truth about UFOs, examining evidence from some of the 70,000 case files hidden away in an Ohio warehouse called Hangar 1 which suggest that cover-ups and conspiracy theories have concealed the secrets for decades. This instalment investigates suggestions that US President Ronald Reagan’s personal encounters with UFOs may have been the driving force behind his `Star Wars’ Strategic Defence Initiative” Go to: http://www.tvguide.co.uk/detail/1977771/121740983/hangar-1-the-ufo-files
for “Hanger One Files”.

Arafel: Since CERN’s “rise to prominence” the already little talked of world of particle beam weapons has been even more seldom mentioned, nevertheless this is not (see quote from BBC video), science fiction for the “major” nations quietly admit to such research and occasionally let things slip (there is in-fact a longer BBC documentary of the time that even shows some of the tech, I’d not seen its like before nor have I since).

Also from the 80s a disturbing video detailing the strange and suspicious circumstances surrounding the deaths of a number of scientists, researchers and military officials involved in the Strategic Defence Initiative…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDA3gGBzMKA"…and …"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe92UbdoIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcNSVG1ikBg&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw2B_-zy0JU&feature=emb_logo" https://www.arafel.co.uk/2017/06/the-real-star-wars-maxspiersrip-reagan.html?spref=tw and https://twitter.com/i/events/1325854428361060353

You’re not going to find a “working example” are you? Funny coincidence that control of atomic research also includes the control of equipment…like, (for instance), large, powerful centrifuges…

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No indeed, G, you’re not going to find a working example. Because there aren’t any. As the pie-in-the-sky article above makes clear. Some time in the sweet by-and-by is its main take-away. Bit like fusion power, flying cars, popular jet-packs, Moon-hols, and the rest, ray-guns have been ‘twenty years in the future’ for all of my lifetime. With the Long Descent away from hitechery tosh now begun, and baked into our nearish future, I expect that time frame to start extending to ‘centuries’ - or ‘never’.

Respectfully Rhis you are wrong…and can you please identify which article is “pie in the sky”…? I have posted in good faith so please do me the courtesy of specifying that to which you are objecting. Surely if one is doing civil research using particle beams one will be doing military research? That’s the way our system works the military are a vital component in ensuring commercial dominance…and you will find ,my friend, that Lockheed Martin (one of the alleged chief players in the anti-gravity device field), invest heavily in CERN…

Let me give you an example that identifies where and how we got it wrong… quote; " Vimana Technology

The Vimana aircraft that are described in ancient Hindu Sanskrit texts are flying machines of varying degrees. The word Vimana translates to “having been measured out” or “traversing,” and were machines piloted by the gods. Much like the chariots of biblical texts, most notably the one seen in Ezekiel’s vision of the wheel, these flying craft came in all shapes and sizes and could travel at different speeds and distances. Some were land and seafaring vehicles, while others flew, sometimes all the way to the moon or further." https://www.gaia.com/article/do-hindu-texts-describing-the-flying-vimanas-also-detail-a-nuclear-war

These devices were clearly created to enhance (like Wilhelm Reich’s*), the human body’s own auric energies, chi, prana , vril… (which is where “The Vril” came from), …but we live in a world in which we have “farmed out” our abilities, an insensate land where machines now do much of our thinking, its vicarious, we are becoming automata, somatised-automata… the Schaubergian physics is at the heart of all vibrational medicine…something I was studying well before I became properly aware of the NAZI anti-gravity device issue…theirs was an “inverted” science…Schauberger (however reluctantly), played a part…his environmental studies were first rate though (hence “shades of Nobel?”), …

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPISXvQwm_E

That’s this cr*p out of here too remember #5G #LossofSignal!

5G mast

#Emergence

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P.S It might cheer you to know that the Wikipedia “Operation High-jump” entry is wrong…it’s propaganda…but I knew that I was just detailing the received wisdom (there is another link re: “High-jump”), and validating the existence of an expedition of that name during the period and in the same region…

All I’m saying G, is show me a working example. Puff pieces for the US military’s latest space toy is hardly a good example. Likewise with the vimanas. Been hearing about them since I was young and ‘Chariots Of The Gods’ appeared. Where are the working, examinable examples? I’ll admit to being wrong when you can produce one, G, or at least point me towards a working example with some persuasive documentation/video-footage; not just highly iffy texts from the intellectual margins. Deal! :slight_smile:

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PS: That Russian film is fascinating stuff, though. Good find! It’s generally thought that the nazis were indeed interested in occult/paranormal matters - as were a whole generation of researchers of that time. I’d say the vid is indicative rather than decisive. But highly interesting.

You’ll know of Graham Hancock’ assertion that there was an ancient highly-accomplished civilisation which was destroyed - probably by big cometary fragments impacting the Earth - at the time when the Younger Dryas interlude began, probably as a result of the global upheavals caused by the meteorites.

These seem to be increasingly persuasive hypotheses lately, as fresh information has come to light. This could well be the source of so much of the strange remnants we see in ancient sites today, though Graham is open-minded, I think, about the ET origins. Could be so. I remain to be convinced, though, that any present power has any of the imagined technologies which might have been around at that time. The proposed early hitechies did produce some pretty rum archaeological remains, though; still very hard to explain convincingly today, with our current techie prowess not really able to reproduce the same effects even now. Keep an open mind on it all, I guess.