“If Israel was a ‘world experiment,’ as Benjamin Netanyahu presented it at one stage, this experiment is now turning into a disaster (at least for the vaccinated). In Israel, the vaccinated are becoming infected at a growing rate and as such are spreading the virus rather than stopping it. We also have a good reason to believe that the rest of the Western world will witness a similar pattern as it has followed the Israeli vaccine doctrine.”
This sort of thing you see…eyes on…
Catastrophe feels like a strong word for what’s going on in Israel:
New Cases (with the dreaded PCR)
Daily deaths
Quite a difference pre and post vaccination I’d say.
Of course, catastrophe perfectly describes the Palestinian situation…
Cheers
PP
Surely it will depend on the severity of illness induced by the variant…
Yes, you’re right. I guess the whole world is watching to see what that looks like
Hi PP
I’m not so sure of Atzmon’s headline but he qualifies his remarks better in the text.
The Twin Peaks graph (it does feel like that!) shows we should be careful before attributing falls in covid stats to a particular reason if the timing of that reason only coincides with one of the peaks.
The vaccine rollout in Israel started in mid December, a couple of months or six weeks before the falls in cases so there was no immediate fall that was obvious. But maybe the graph shows the result of rising cases hitting rising vaccination numbers; the sum of the two competing effects.
Even if we assume the data supports the idea that the vaccine has had some effect in reducing the covid numbers that are presented, this is far from enough to establish it is a good idea. For example, there is no comparable graph of vaccine-related deaths (‘related’, counted the same way as covid deaths are counted, ie within 28 days of the covid test in the UK - so within 28 days of the jab would be comparable).
In Israel there seemed to be a spike of deaths within the first week or two after vaccination, a pattern that seemed to be echoed in reports from care homes in the UK and elsewhere.
Data from countries that are further ahead with the vaccine rollout seem to indicate an initial rise in cases/deaths following the vaccine. (Eg French Medical Doctor: COVID-19 Injections Increasing DEATHS and New Infections – The Evidence is Overwhelming). I’ve not checked this out.
Atzmon’s post
The cases graph shows what Atzmon is saying, there is a recent rise in cases, and from the data the vaccinated are a much bigger part of that than would be expected if it was doing its job.
Any deaths are delayed of course but you can just see a new blip in the deaths graph corresponding to the rise in cases, though it’s a bit early to tell if it’s real.
I think any indication that the perceived ‘benefit’ from the vaccine is ceasing to apply is significant.
Atzmon points out that this is from the new variant - the one they are scaring everybody with.
Pfizer have asked ask for booster jabs to be authorized. The alternative explanation instead of variants is that the vaccine while being risky does at least work, but not for long.
Cheers
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Just regarding the Israel data, I had also been looking at this from Daily Expose
Yes that’s another bad headline! It might be numerically correct but the numbers are small.
I’m not going to dwell on that - I just wanted to point out something more modest.
(Table 5 P16) Vaxxed Unvaxxed
Delta cases admitted 37329 71932
Deaths 163 92
.: % death rate 0.44 0.13
(The ‘Vaxxed’ column I obtained just by adding up the two ‘21 days’ cols for dose 1 and ‘received 2 doses’)
Link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001009/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf
So for all the vaxxed, the death rate among those admitted to hospital for covid was 0.44% compared with 0.13% for the unvaxxed.
Worth pointing out given Atzmon’s piece. Israel and the UK were the two fastest on the draw regarding the vaccine rollouts, by a long way.
Hi @Evvy_dense
All good points, and lots of food for thought. All I’ll say is that the kind of dive into the stats that GA is attempting is fraught with danger - too many confounding effects that are very tricky to tease apart. It’ll take careful study to really understand the dynamics of vaxxed Vs the rest etc. The UK Column and Yeadon are both examples of what trying to dive into the stats without due care looks like. We need less of that, in my opinion.
But, my main point remains. We can call the situation in Israel many things, but “catastrophe” seems not to fit… Not yet, anyway.
Cheers
PP
I see much bandying of the word ‘cases’ in this thread. People going to hospital with signs of a nasty (out of season) flu, NOT getting treated with the cheap, plentiful, proven safe and reliable things that would have saved them, if applied early enough, and consequently dying, is one thing. As we’ve seen all through this racket, that’s much harder to fiddle. But ‘cases’? You have to ask: “How do they know? Even if they’ve mended their ways and started giving out honest numbers?”
If the answer is: “Through the PCR non-test, which turns palpably well people into allegedly 'infected cases”, whilst offering zero reliable information, then all the graphs fall to pieces. They have zero reliable numbers to construct them.
I’ve seen no sign that the damned liars (and the damnfool Deceived Influencers) behind this whole scam have, in fact, changed their lying/deluded ways. Why would we start believing them now?
Thought experiment: if one was keen to obfuscate vaxxx side effects and/or efficacy stats isn’t a perfect way to recommend mix and match?
To simplify let’s say there are three jabs, M, P, and X. Let’s also mix and match the time lag between jab 1 and jab 2.
So how many permutations does that throw up…?
Jab M - wait 4 weeks - Jab M again
Jab M - 4 - Jab P
M - 4 - X
P - 4 - P
P - 4 - M
P - 4 - X
X - 4 - X
X - 4 - M
X - 4 - P
You get the idea.
Stats, graphs, correlations ain’t all that. And in a deliberately obfuscated environment, which I believe is being created, the most powerful lie, repeated enough times, will prevail.
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Hi @KarenEliot , as you say loads of permutations. Another thought, fwiw - I recall a way of selling encyclopaedia sets :
- Divide the tome into several physical volumes
- Sell each volume separately or even divide those into parts
- Explain that each volume only costs several pennies per day
- Then offer to reduce the costs by paying for each volume monthly
- Then give a massive deduction if you buy all the volumes together payable over say 5 years with bigger reductions for say 1 year purchases.
- the result is suckers with encyclopaedia volumes that cost a fortune and which they didn’t want in the first place and which actually only labelled things without truly explaining them.
Politicians have been doing the same things with stats all the time
- the cost of nuclear “defence” is spread over 50 years but we are still paying through the nose.
- taxing the rich would only result in only a few pennies for everyone else each day, although of course heavy taxation of several thousand wealthy people could pay for all manner of social goods each year - hospitals, schools, playing fields, improvements in housing etc.
and now of course water down the impact of each death or each lifelong disability caused by the jab by expressing them as percentages of the total number jabbed, when of course any intervention that kills even one person should make everyone question the value of playing Russian roulette with their lives.
- the bigger the lie the better. If people believe “vaccines” are safe and stop the spread of something dangerous, then call everything that comes in a jab a vaccine - jab done!
cheers
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Hi @KarenEliot
No doubt things have been deliberately obfuscated. Look at the way “official” trials of HCQ and now ivermectin have been done.
The Israeli situation is different though. They only used the Pfizer vaccine and it was all done to the same protocol. The only differences there is that certain sub-populations refused (mainly on religious grounds) or didn’t get it yet. It’s a pretty good test case… But it still needs to be looked at with care!
Cheers
PP
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Re Atzmon, there is a significant undercurrent bubbling away under the surface (or may be broken out in Israel itself) that strongly challenges the integrity of the vaccine picture that is being given out.
Atzmon also said “It was revealed later that day that Pfizer’s emergency booster request was initiated following some catastrophic data from Israel.”. Reasonable journalism to go looking.
“The Israeli People Committee (IPC), a civilian body made of leading Israeli health experts, has published its April report into the Pfizer vaccine’s side effects indicating damage to almost every system in the human body. If the findings by IPC are genuine, then Pfizer vaccine is linked to more deaths in Israel than AstraZeneca’s in the whole of Europe. The findings are catastrophic on every possible level. This is a detailed report that highlights the most devastating findings.”
I’m sure this background, which is more noteworthy than the take of one person, is partly informing Atzmon’s stance or headline. It needs its own thread.
In case I don’t manage to get it together, the basis of this challenge can be found here:
Video of Didier Raoult discussing the Israel situation where the biggest data is from:
http://www.nakim.org/israel-forums/viewtopic.php?t=270984
and here: Exposing distortions in the NEJM scientific publication on the efficiency of Pfizer's vax-הודעות של נקים
from what seems to be a large group of Israeli doctors headed by Drs Seligmann and Nakim who have challenged official vaccine outcomes in Israel from the beginnning.
Raoult also said that in his hospital they have seen 350 vaccinated people diagnosed already. They have a colleague reporting pharmacovigilance data to them and he told them that was more than was reported for the whole of France. That suggests data is ‘incomplete’ (video over cries ‘fake’).
Raoult refers to this paper in the NEJM (health warning)
Link: Efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 Covid-19 Vaccine against the B.1.351 Variant - PubMed
which is the paper that is being debunked as ‘fraud’ in the second nakim link.
This same link seems to indicate a high risk of death in the first 4 days after the Pfizer shot in Israel - something that was also strongly suggested by the early reports.
Cheers
PS I realize this jumbled post is a ‘bad reporting’ classic - sorry! 
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Really interesting data there ED. Definitely needs it’s own thread, I think, and a good look. Important to keep collating all the data we can get to try and get a real sense of how the picture is unfolding. As I said above to Karen, Israel is a good test case - for better or worse.
I’m running around today but will read with great interest anything that you can dig up on this. I’ll do a little digging if my own when I’m in front of a computer.
Cheers bwana
PP
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