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What the hell's going on! STW and Elenskistan

War and conflict
#1

My only gauge of the UK psyche in relation to war with Russia is STW, which astonishingly and incomprehensibly is still calling for Russia to “pull out”. Even as 1700 neo-Nazis surrender to Russian and DNR forces, and Mariupol starts its long journey of restoration to a beautiful city on the sea without a fascist mafia in control.
The schism in society is so complete that people here can’t even understand what Russia is doing, while they fawn over the clown of Kiev and salivate over lethal weaponry that selectively kills Russians. Perhaps I’ve been watching too much from Reality_Theories, Eva Bartlett’s telegram channel, or listening to Martyanov… But no; I have no doubts, however dangerous that is. I just can’t believe that the whole bloody Western cultural sphere has been hypnotised by this Hollywood 'Elensky crap, most recently and obscenely in Cannes. After Eurovision… words fail.
Today it seemed to be suggested that the poor young Russian who shot a civilian near Kiev four days after the SMO started, and has been persecuted for two months by Ukies, could be swapped for the 1700 Heroes of Ukraine, whose cumulative homicide must run into tens of thousands. Fair swap in Alice’s Wonderland.

Looking for your thoughts, from Pommyland. (here is a desert…)

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#2

Hi @Dimac this country no longer has any easy access to diverse opinions - only the official view can be seen ( without a lot of digging on sites you have to have known about ). The general acceptance of this is just the next bout of national hypnotism - of course having been hypnotised once repeat sessions are far easier.

Cheers

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#3

The blanket message coming out of all our controlled devices has appeared so unchallengeable that STW is likely worried about losing ‘credibility’ in the eyes of most people.

Select squares with…Prove you’re not a Putin puppet by criticizing Putin.

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#4

Dimac, for what it’s worth here’s my take on it: ever since the invasion started in February, by far the greatest vitriol against Putin and Russia has come from Britain, so much so that Britain now has a huge Russian target painted on it (I’d be worried if I were living in Britain).

So why the extreme russophobia…? Well, all you have to look at is who’s the head of state in Britain: Queen Liz, who represents extreme (unelected) power and wealth. Queen Liz is the wealthiest woman in the world - amongst other things she still legally owns Canada, Australia, NZ, many other territories around the world, and a huge chunk of Britain, including the foreshore.

The 1917 revolution in Russia was, arguably, the first genuine working class uprising (the revolutions in France and America were led by the middle and upper class). This scared the willys out of the ruling class, so much so that in 1918 the Brits and Americans sent an army into Russia to fight the Bolsheviks (this at the end of WW1 when untold millions had already been slaughtered on battlefields in Europe).

The Brits and Americans were unsuccessful in defeating the Bolsheviks, so they later bankrolled the Nazis (the ‘economic miracle’ and all that), because they knew that Hitler would attack Russia. That also was unsuccessful. Around 26 million Russians were killed in WW2, and if it weren’t for that tremendous sacrifice we’d all be speaking German now.

Anyhows, this is a complicated subject. Suffice to say, with the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 1990s the West installed a pisshead president in Russia called Boris Yeltzin, and Russia was plundered (it’s where all them Russian oligarchs come from). Going into the 2000s, Putin came to power, and as either prime minister or President he’s been in power ever since.

The thing to bear in mind here is that Putin, although elected under different ‘democracy’ banners, and seemingly pro-capitalist, comes from the Soviet era, and the Communist Party remains, by far, the second biggest force in Russian politics. If Putin falls there’s every chance that the Communists will rule Russia again.

No wonder that Queen Liz & Co are clutching their pearls, and will gladly take us all into WW3 in a vain attempt to preserve their wealth and power.

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#5

Thanks all, and thanks Rob for some more historic details not yet divined but definitely on my radar; the appearance of support for Nazism in Europe and UK is hard to understand without realising that there has been an undercurrent of it for a long time - and in the current conflict going back to WW2 with the UK connection to Lviv. Separating the Jewish connection and the Nazi connection is most problematic and contentious, though 'Elensky has managed to bring them together!
But I also was thinking about the royal connection when I put that photo of Chas on his bike with the bikeman of Bucha.

As for STW, I understand that appearing to support or even tolerate VVP would put them offside with supporters, but standing up for fascism is going a bit too far. Today’s message includes : @media only screen and (min-width: 570px) { .u-row { width: 550px !important; } .u-row .u-col { vertical-align: top; } .u-row .u-col-50 { width: 275px !important; } .u-row .u-col-100 { width: 550px !important; } } @media (max-width: 570px) { .u-row-container { max-width: 100% !important; padding-left: 0px !important; padding-right: 0px !important; } .u-row .u-col { min-width: 320px !important; max-width: 100% !important; display: block !important; } .u-row { width: calc(100% - 40px) !important; } .u-col { width: 100% !important; } .u-col > div { margin: 0 auto; } } body { margin: 0; padding: 0; } table, tr, td { vertical-align: top; border-collapse: collapse; } p { margin: 0; } .ie-container table, .mso-container table { table-layout: fixed; } * { line-height: inherit; } a[x-apple-data-detectors=‘true’] { color: inherit !important; text-decoration: none !important; } table, td { color: #000000; } a { color: #009c82; text-decoration: underline; }

“Ukraine’s President Zelenskiy has said the Donbas region is being destroyed by indiscriminate Russian shelling.”

What would we want to know what HE says for, this “President (Z)elensky”?

This I might say is after Russia and Donetsk militias succeeded in releasing and extracting 2,450 nationalist extremist killers and a few family civilians from the catacombs of Azovstal, after they retreated there as a last riposte when cleared from the city… without a SHOT BEING FIRED! An absolutely remarkable effort, in which the UN, IRC and Kiev had practically no part.
The announcement today is that Lugansk region is now liberated from the terrorists of Azov and Aidar.
So “Russia must pull out” seems worse than idiotic, and can’t be excused by saying “Oh and NATO too…”
cheers. But then I’m a rusted on Putin supporter and advocate. Not a Puppet! Like about 100 million Russians with access to reliable news services.

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#6

Dimac, at the time of writing your link up above is not working; it’s just showing the coding.

You seem familiar with Putin the person. For those who aren’t familiar the following is a brief bio, from a western news organisation, that is mostly neutral…

When you look back on the 20th Century you have to let out a big PHEW!!! It’s not that there weren’t revolutions before then (Watt Tyler and the peasant’s revolt in the 1400s being one such). It was just the sheer scale of the Russian and then Chinese revolutions that are breathtaking, chucked in with two world wars and then numerous equally violent proxy wars against these revolutions.

I think the 21st century is also going to be a bit interesting, to put it mildly.

#7

You could add the Iranian revolution too, which may not have been so dramatic and not violent, but continues to be a festering sore in the US-Zionist psyche. After their blissful 25 years under the Shah - which was a bit like Russia under Yeltsin for giving the West access to and control of Iranian resources, seeing it all taken away was too much. That the US war in Afghanistan against Russia started then is hardly coincidence.
What I find really depressing is that the bastards in the Anglo empire have played these games with millions of people’s lives for our whole lifetimes, yet are now accelerating their campaign in the cyber sphere as well.
It’s too late to reimagine our world now - at least for us - and probably fantasy to imagine that everything would have been smooth running and civilised without the Great Satan and his spawn. Yet it would surely have been better had good men like Lavrov and Zarif commanded the respect they deserved.

As for Putin - sadly I didn’t get to meet him - though I did meet someone who put in a good word for him that I valued - Malcolm Fraser. That was back in 2013 when Mother Agnes visited OZ, and we took her to talk to Fraser, who was about to finish his book on “Dangerous Allies”. They talked a lot about the CIA’s control and geopolitics in general - but Malcolm Fraser talked of his impression on meeting Putin in Serbia, when he was involved in some hostage dispute as head of CARE. It was at that time that Fraser parted company with the US. He said that he found Putin “a humorous man” - in the sense of being of good humour. (though he also likes to have a joke…) Fraser more or less painted himself out of the picture, as the wokes never got over his role in Whitlam’s dismissal, and didn’t see how he’d changed so radically. But of course I also watched Oliver Stone’s 4 part interviews with VVP, and confirmed my intuitions about the man.

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#8

Lamentably, the savvy way to think about nazism - particularly the mafia-style brutishness and lethal violence of the nazi way of operating - seems to be that it’s simply natural to humans, some percentage in any sample, to think that way. Convictions such as: Our in-group above all others; violence as a natural and entirely acceptable way, and indeed a gratifying way, of imposing your will; primarily a ‘super-manly-man’ thing; etc.

It seems to be built in to the human psyche, at least at this stage in our - continuing - evolution. Something to be watched and restrained perennially, because it won’t be eradicated permanently any time soon.

PS: With all the usual caveats, I too qualify as a fan-boy of VVP; and Ollie Stone’s interviews seem to give a pretty reliable picture, I’d say. Definitely one of the great patriotic statesmen of our time, as contrasted with the herd of venal, own-grand-mother-selling, johnsonoid, petty-crook pocket-politicians which we suffer currently in the West.

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#9

Dimac, any thoughts on the Australian elections? (start a new thread if you want)

#10

Rhis, a few days before Russia went into Ukraine, Putin gave an hour long address about the reasons for the invasion and the objectives (Putin’s speech can still be found online). Over the following months the Russian military have done exactly what Putin said they would do, and they have done their best to avoid civillian casualties.

If this was an American/NATO operation they would have carpet bombed everything, including cities.

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#11

I’ll write some comments on the change of government here a little later… which is a little like the change from Trump to Biden… only a little as all the warmongering against Russia was from the Coalition government and its psychopathic ministers Dutton and Payne.
But on Putin, I agree with Rhis - Putin is THE great patriotic statesman of our time, incomparable really both intellectually and personally. That’s why the caracature of him in the West is so bizarre and perverse and criminal. And as you say Rob, he has done what he said he would do, including in Azovstal - which we might compare with the US charade in Mosul and Raqqa - bombed to dust without actually killing most of the militants and burying the population under rubble, and then moving on and leaving them there.

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#12

Agreed, however, ‘behind every great man …’

Let’s not forget, Russia’s behaviour on the international scene is solidly reinforced by the likes of Lavrov, Zakharova, and Shoigu.

And I’m looking forward to your answer to Rob’s “Dimac, any thoughts on the Australian elections?”

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#13

No well I never forget Lavrov or the formidable Maria Z - I just wish Russia would give her a more prominent role so that Western media would be forced to justify their inanities. And Lavrov - if there was ever a more worthy recipient of the NPP, notwithstanding that it is totally tarnished by being awarded to warmakers - Lavrov’s diplomacy has been untiring in the face of total intransigence. Notably though, it is only since the Ukie’s war on Russia that Lavrov has lost his good humour, first noticed with Liz Truss when he didn’t stop for any pleasantries or handshakes.

I’ll open a new thread on the election…