I was really shocked to see some of the dozens of screenshots of lefty types outright celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk.
Just cannot rationalize how people seem to feel the compulsion to gloat and threaten others. These were all USA-based, and no doubt many are faked.
I haven’t even looked at UK X/Twitter yet, I hardly dare.
What are people’s thoughts?
I’m getting a George Floyd psychosis within a larger psychosis kinda vibe. Except upside-down. Shudder.
Without a doubt, this was professional. Two guys behind Kirk (security no less) did baseball style signals. Was timed just as he spoke about guns. Several patsies in the crowd with air rifles. Former FBI man says shooters position was perfect for a long getaway
If you’ve watched Man with the Golden Gun you’ll know that bullets that are engraved are useless. If the cartridges were carved, they’ll jam. Guns are about precision. Shot was 200m. (600 odd ft or 1/8 mile) Not easy at all. Add wind etc, then hit carotid artery…
So ,who profits? Trump clearly. He’s got his agenda now. But who else? Larry over at sonar21 says Charlie was having second thoughts about the Israelis. I’ve seen a tweet prior to this claiming that Charlie was trying to break free from something you don’t break from without paying a price.
Bibi’s swift condolences?
Hmm the thing with the plane looks a bit too copypasta to me. Predictive programming from some or another episode of Alias with the comely Jennifer Garner.
Seriously shady? Oh yes. Or should I say oy vey?
I only just realised Donald trump is visiting UK next week.
Replying to your first post @Kieran_Telo
TBH I haven’t thought much about the whos and whys but I did ponder over the opposite reactions, not least because I could rationalize both myself. The gunning down of a guns advocate who said guns were a price worth paying becomes it’s own witticism in the telling and, many thereby find it irresistible to point it out with barely concealed glee. At a somewhat human level, for diehard opponents of the guy killed there is a suggestion of poetic justice, biter bit, taste of his own medicine etc. But as the opposition to Kirk (for example) itself supposedly has a moral basis (who decries shootings without reference to right and wrong?) the gleeful are automatically turned into hypocrites, reduced to the same eye-for an eye philosophy so disdained when it comes from their guntoting opponents.
When a bullfighter is killed should I be sad? Perhaps I might spare a thought for his family, but in a process so cruel it doesn’t even come remotely close to being called a war, there has to be consideration of an element of greater good. It is this element of greater good that muddies the waters in the case of Kirk’s assassination. If guns are bad, killing x thousand per year in the US, it’s easy to think that if Kirk’s death is a setback for the gun brigade it will be good in the long term. If steeped in this war mentality the glee is understandable - but only in the context. Trouble is, the context is often absent and “Serves you Feckers right!” only fans the flames.
During covid these issues arose, initially when prominent ‘anti-vaxxers’ died after a covid diagnosis and many vaccine advocates more or less celebrated the moment. As the pendulum swung and deaths in vaccine advocates shortly after taking the jab made the media, the poetic justice was on the side of the ‘antis’, in that that stage had already been set. I like to think there was less of the gratuitous glee from campaigners, but this may not be true - like you Kieran_Telo I stayed off Twitter style bearpits unless I was looking for something specific.
It may be that the public glee is wrong as it dishes out worse feelings on people who have just been saddened and after all a funeral isn’t the place to have the political argument about ‘greater good’ - perhaps the glee has a place in private between choir members who believe, as they do, that there is a war taking place that must be won.
It’s more complicated.when you consider that it takes more than one issue to define a human. (Moving into personal opinion…) Charlie Kirk also represented ‘the right’ on covid and medical freedom, while the principled ‘left’ were advocating compulsory mass covid vaccination, with prison on the agenda, with no idea about the issues on which they were passing summary judgement, and the consequent harms of their policy.
OTOH, Senator Ron Johnson, a veritable star (according to me) on covid and so-called medical freedom, seems also to represent the bible-thumping right on other matters, holding views that are probably repulsive to most lefties.
To me the only helpful starting point for a frujitful ongoing debate is that people advocating their honest views have to be respected as people and the discussion has to be about the arguments.
But on how this debate can be managed or self-managed in public and kept away both from censorship and from the long bunfight, I’m still stumped!
Thanks for raising the issue @Kieran_Telo !
The rifle in question. Not only does it have questionable ammunition, the scope is on the wrong way around. Not sure what amuses me more, the impossibility of hitting the target or the black eye from the attempt
Fantastic to read this detailed response, thank you.
This rang so true: During covid these issues arose, initially when prominent ‘anti-vaxxers’ died after a covid diagnosis and many vaccine advocates more or less celebrated the moment. As the pendulum swung and deaths in vaccine advocates shortly after taking the jab made the media, the poetic justice was on the side of the ‘antis’, in that that stage had already been set. I like to think there was less of the gratuitous glee from campaigners, but this may not be true - like you Kieran_Telo I stayed off Twitter style bearpits unless I was looking for something specific.
the ways in which scapegoating works as a social outlet are so so deep. In a pre-modern culture the risk of being shamed, or banished, was, and still is, a powerful force for good. Except when witchfinder generals came along I then remind myself. And that is also a really quite deep seated thing. And so the thoughts whirl around, sheesh! (Samsara)
Ultimately I think words can hurt. They can create stigma. People should consider for a moment before posting cruel words. Seeming inability to do that deserves to be called out. So I think doxxing some school teacher who can’t curb their wrong speech is almost like driving out the bully, by other means.
I wonder how this will end up being another way to clamp down until online language, other than winky faces and hearts, is chilled. Bound to do so I think.
Thanks again evvy
I saw that and the counter argument was that rifle thing and sight thing were found together but not attached. So someone put the two together for the money shot.
I truly have no f. Idea.
Anagram help from some website where bad people cheat at crosswords, probably.
Signalling just prior to shot
Also, male seen removing evidence (possibly a camera?) immediately after the assassination
I’ve been deliberately stepping away from this, the polarising effects are too scary.
I did watch Larry Johnson talking to Judge Nap, focusing on technical things. It’s perfectly possible a competent person, trained at a range, could have been sole culprit.
Prior to that I watched a video of Charlie Kirk and Tyler Robinson, about twenty minutes long. The younger guy was publicly crushed, but could easily have walked away. He could have felt humiliated to the point of reacting violently but that was weeks ago.
I watched the lengthy YuoBute debate on Israel featuring Dave Smith. The latter was truthful, determined, measured… but joined in with his opponent (Morgan something? shady SOB) in ritual demonization of Hamas. Kirk was moderator and okay at it.
Is Dubya’s “You’re either for us or against us” coming to a head? Because once again (like COVID) it’s gone up to eleven.
Yes I think so. The lines of demarcation are fuzzier and cleverer but always boil down to a binary. c.f. many of Kit Knightly’s pieces at OffG.
What I mean is that in different parts of the world the online haters tend to have distinct characteristics. But online haters they are.
Flag waving can be good… or bad etc.
Ditto abortion, petrol driven cars, varying archetypes projected on to the cave wall… two choices, that’s your lot. I must rewatch Twin Peaks: The Return.
4xhan theory
Also, from Blumenthal;
US Conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, who had never opposed Israel’s existence, was offered $150m by the pro-Israel lobby “for being even more pro-Israel than he already was and in particular to support regime change in Iran and genocide in Gaza,” says political commentator Nick Fuentes.
Kirk was invited to meet Bill Ackman, a billionaire and a pro-Israeli advocate close to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in August at swanky New York state resort The Hamptons.
Once there, Kirk was “hammered” for hosting Israel critics, journalist Max Blumenthal reveals.
“Ackman had this meeting to bully Charlie Kirk into submission,” Blumenthal said. “Charlie Kirk walked away, according to one person, feeling like there was an attempt to blackmail him, he refused any offers of funding and also refused the offer to travel to Israel and meet with Netanyahu.”
The Grayzone are absolutely knocking it outta the park right now.
