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The story of the century. Akin to defenestration. Iāve sort of watched the 40 min video and itās telling. Rubioās face is the meeting in a picture. And then the coke fueled midget attacked Vance.
Vance simply pointed out that calling people names wasnāt going to work. The previous administration had done that and gotten nowhere. Seemed to me like a national political point score for the media etc and not an attack on the midget. Things when rapidly down hill from there. Audibly calling Vance a bitch in Russian wonāt go down well.
I donāt think he can row back from this one
Edit.
That comment from Trump to Starmer asking if we can take Russia alone and Starmers reaction was hilarious.
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I canāt spare the time or energy to listen to Mercouris using 1,000 words when 10 will do. However, I did watch a snippet of the Trump, Vance, and the Green Goblin (h/t Iām not sure but it works for me) on Glenn Greenwald.
The Goblin has no grasp whatever of decorum, and needs to learn a little about public debate. I think both Starmer and the Goblen left without anything and probably made their own situation even worse.
@LocalYokel reference to Starmer and āCan you take Russia aloneā almost made me warm to Tump; almost.
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The whole thing
The last 10m is where it takes off.
https://x.com/i/status/1895529259453857859
Before that when they are taking questions and answering individually, all three of them spoke reasonably well. Until JD Vance replied to Zelensky trying to squash him. Zelenskyās reply fired him up - looks like Vance was on a short fuse - and Trump, who had done well talking to the gallery as the statesman, seemed to take his cue from that. That was the end of the diplomatic party, as Trump and Vance aggressively stopped Zelensky from speaking. A diplomatic catastrophe, brought about by the two Americans who had just been preaching the merits of diplomacy. They dropped the baby. Now I hear the deal is off but weāll see what happens.
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Iām not so sure of this. Like anything involving Trump, itāll take a few days for things to settle into place.
Rubio was told that the deal was as good as signed. He told Trump everything was set. They printed the official documents in anticipation. Then the midget moved the goal posts.
That faceā¦
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Looks like the sticking point might be those āsecurty guaranteesā which Ukraine and Russia want to nail down. The US can talk about deals and diplomacy but there is a block between Ukraine and Russia with each portraying the other as the villain, and wanting all the āsecurityā to themselves. The US canāt do much about this - Russia would like a guarantee the US (the evil uncle of the drama) wonāt fund any more Ukraine aggression against the Russian peoples of its own eastern region. But then Zelenksy will say that leaves Ukraine defenceless. Trump wants a deal to wear on his lapel but more than that he wants to secure the dosh, which needs the war to stop. Iām not sure the US have had much to say on the security arrangements between the two warring countries, which is probably why they are uncomfortable when Zelensky tries to call these shots - with the big player in the game absent. But they made a pigās ear of limiting Zelenskyās ambitions with the world watching; needing him to rein himself in a bit, they told him to shut up - as if that was the only way to do that - and then didnāt try to retrieve the impasse that resulted. Having played diplomacy as their ātrump cardā, they only revealed their lack of nuance when something other than direct forcefulness was required.
IMO Z. needs to talk to Putin more than these bozos who are mainly there for their payoff.
Cheers
I think Alex Christoforou may have coined āGreen Goblinā (and never fails to refer to Elensky). He currently has a running gag Viz. āStarmer. Keir Starmer. 008 Licensed To Boreā.
Not the best of links (apologies), but it seems that everyone in Europe has gone like US TV does with those identical messages from different networks.
ā¦Your dignity honors the bravery of the Ukrainian people.
Be strong, be brave, be fearless. You are never alone, dear President @ZelenskyyUa.
We will continue working with you for a just and lasting peaceā¦
Simpliciusā take
It was a great spectacle but itās depressing how many people think itās great in itself, ie that Trump and Vance were right. One has to allow for the Always Trump factor in the reactions. Simplicus like a lot of the US commentary doesnāt see anything wrong with such a brutal ambush in a situation of guaranteed discretion and good manners, as long as ass was kicked. The sheer hypocrisy of Trump invoking the US flag when it suits him, but ignoring that the US had already brought us to the brink of WWIII. Canāt have it both ways.
Zelensky has played a key role in this as the US puppet, and what was missing was a flaming Zelensky saying you can only take your money if you make good on the rest. And Iām not your f***ing puppet any longer. And you canāt dress me either.
Liked the Putin joke. Itās not a complete joke as they need a moderator to speak to each other properly and only the Russians speak with the sombre gravitas required. An adult in the room at all times, minimum.
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We donāt get why people are taking this stuff seriously. Trump even told us it would make great TV while it was going on. The whole thing was staged and would not have seen the light of day had the fuckers not deemed it appropriate to give the proles something to get excited about. This may be, we speculate, just a way for the tee-shirt to save face with his āown peopleā and bow out at the same time because he is now definitely not wanted on voyage. Good job, well done, now fuck off.
All the actors are playing their parts and, it appears, so is the audience.
And anyway, well, anyway:
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Well you watched an hour long video, wasnāt a comedy 
. Looks quite good though, just watched a bit so far. Helmerās personality analysis doesnāt add much to his more factual synopsis though. The people who have been bringing us the Trump dementia line for the last year without any evidence are the same people who told us Biden was a sharp as a tack when his cognition problems were obvious.
What would be the benefits to each of staging a row do you think Alan.
And meanwhile, back on the ranch, Israehell continues even more blatant breaches of the ceasefire agreement, so a good day to bury bad news? Maybe answers @Evvy_denseās question as well?
Hi @PatB
I think itās a big ask. Why would Zelenksy put Israelās PR in front of his countryās war and āsecurityā (security in his view that is). Though their seeming inabilty to discuss anything at all with each other has gone down well with Trumpers (and for Vance as well), all three of them have lost wider political status. Zelenksy is widely thought to have been humiliated, though in my view he is the only one who didnāt disgrace himself with his conduct of the meeting.
It is admittedly odd that they brought in the cameras and it was followed by an ambush on Zelensky by two rottweilers but they now seem to be scrambling to get back where they were already. If it was all staged Iād like to see who gains from that.
I should have been a bit more specific. I donāt think Zelensky was in on it, but the more I think about it, all the pundits that I listen to are saying it was staged or at least Trump and Vance were well scripted. I think looking at the egregious dismissal of Phase 2 of the Gaza ceasefire, more killings in the West Bank, and more Lebanese house demolitions, at the same time as the worlds press are focused on rumble in the jungle (oops, I mean the white house), is too much of a coincidence for me.
Late edit. I forgot the funeral of Sayyed Nasrahlla which I have no doubt the GICās in the west would like forgotten. From Vanessa Beeley:
ā Even at 7am the crowds were immense. The stadium had been 50% filled within 10 minutes of the doors opening at 6am. Mourners from all over the world had flown in and slept in freezing temperatures outside the doors all night to ensure their place inside.ā
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Yeah the two yanks hunted as a pair on cue, with an agreed line.
Zelenksy could have made them look foolish with this line so they shut him up.
Imagine him getting it together for a second and sayingā¦itās your war as well, do you mean I should thank you for our x thousand dead? Although it would be x thousand and one when he got back.
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I heard somewhere (Mercouris at the top of this thread?) that Trump didnāt want to see Zelensky at all but was talked into it by Macron during his visit with Trump.
I knew Iād seen a scene like that beforeā¦
This means war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-aOWVWMk2c