Hi Rippon
I don’t have FB so it’s not obvious to me what’s happening there - any chance you could perform a little cut n paste?
Also, I’m very curious - what’s your most honest take on what’s actually happening here (in the wider context, not in the photo). You’ve obviously read widely around what someone might call the alternative narrative. In your opinion, what’s the gameplan here?
Cheers
PP
EDIT: found this link in the gruauniad for those who don’t have FB
Three Australian cops enter the home a tiny (pregnant) woman (and her boyfriend) and arrest her for posting on Facebook notice about an upcoming demonstration.
(I don’t know how to cut-and-paste video from fb; don’t know if that’s even possible.)
I haven’t read particularly widely. I don’t have any real insight into what the gameplan is.
I just think, You have to take seriously the ‘conspiracy theorists’ who argue that the gameplan is tighter control of populations because that is indeed what we’re seeing. I find it astounding that people (e.g. at TLN) dismiss that argument so easily when it is clearly not at all easy to dismiss.
She just posted a link to an existing demo and got arrested? Was she the organiser do you know?
We’re living through a pretty scary time.
So it seems to me there are two questions to consider here.
1 - is the state justified in arresting people for simply publicising a public protest? We already know that they have no problem arresting people who might attend a protest, but just publishing a link…?
At the very least that’s worth a public discussion.
2 - For the sake of argument, let’s assume that covid really is as dangerous as we’re being told (IFR of approx 0.9%). The second question would be what does a proportional response to such a contagious disease look like? If there’s a legitimate argument that attending a demonstration has a high likelihood of sparking a surge in the pandemic with an ensuing cluster of deaths, what is an appropriate response to folk who attend such a demonstration or publicise it…?
Again, at the very least I feel like there’s a public discussion waiting to be had here.
Of course the next question would be what if it’s much less dangerous than we’re being told and this is all a con? That question, at least, has a chance of being determined scientifically through studies, but questions 1) and 2) above can’t be solved by science.
Interested in any and all thoughts on these questions…
Cheers
PP
You are kidding or being ironic?
Try this watching from 9 minutes onwards regarding the CDC’s (very quiet) adjustment of their Covid deaths adjustment down from 160,000 to just over 9,000.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/LAXrdwr5ilgD/
Hi @PatB
So, two quick points:
1 - I just watched the video you linked to. I have seen this 94% number thrown around a lot over the last couple of days. Unfortunately the linked video badly misleads on the subject, in my opinion.
The data point is that out of everyone who died after contracting covid 6% had no other comorbidity, and 94% did. To go on to say that therefore we can ignore the 94% seens to me to be a way of somehow discounting the suffering and death of hundreds of thousands of people. As I pointed out to Rhis is a different thread the way I look at it is as follows:
Would any of the people who contracted Covid and subsequently died, have survived had they not contracted Covid?
If the answer is yes (they would have survived) then as far as I’m converned, it was Covid that killed them. Anything else looks like shady accounting to me.
Presumably the same proportion of people had the same comorbidities last year as this year. Did the same number of people die last year as this year? Absolutely not. What was the difference that caused the massive spike in excess deaths seen in many countries around the world? Covid (probably - perhaps there are other factors that you can think of?).
To make matters worse, during times of lockdown, you would expect excess mortality to decrease as you have severely impaired peoples mobility and daily routine. There are fewer car accidents, train accidents, homicides (probably?) etc. And yet, we witnessed the exact opposite - a big spike in mortality. The spike was not caused by people having existing health conditions.
Couple this fact with the absolutely huge numbers of people who with comorbidities in our society and you can see that this is still a very dangerous illness. And that it is particularly dangerous for poor people, people from ethnic minorities and other disadvantaged groups, who typically have more of these health conditions that get noted as comorbidities. We should think carefully before somehow trying to discount these deaths.
So, repeating the 94% statistic to somehow prove that Covid is far less dangerous than previously stated is not convincing to me.
2 - On the subject of PCR testing, I I posted a link to this today. It is an interesting topic, for sure and I’d like to tease out some thoughts on that. The only point that I would make now, is that if PCR testing has massively overestimated the number of people who were infected with Sars-Cov-2, then the only thing it means is that the disease is actually more deadly than we thought, as more people have died for fewer infected.
Of course, it’s possible that PCR didn’t massively overestimate the number of cases… I don’t really know what the truth is about that.
Finally, I’m not saying that Covid actually does have a 0.9% infection fatality rate (IFR). I was conceding that point only for the sake of argument, trying to discuss what an appropriate government response would look like in the worst case scenario.
Cheers
PP
P, how do you know that a lot more people than usual have died this year - ostensibly from covid? Where are the reliable data? I don’t know of any, but that could just be because I’m not looking in the right places. I’m all at sea about whether anything at all is known for real certain about this - alleged - epidemic. I can’t assume that it is until I see some convincing evidence.
Hi RG
So, I’m basing that on govt data. There are public data sets from many countries around the world, and many show the same trend.
Could they all be fake? Maybe. But, the only choices are:
- Many countries around the world have simultaneously faked thousands of death certificates this year to show a massive spike, or
- Many countries around the world are observing the same phenomenon, i.e. something is causing a large number of excess deaths this year
As far as sources go, I saw some stats that old Chris Martensen had pulled together a while ago, but if you’re interested I could go and search for them to post here.
Cheers
Sorry P. It just doesn’t smell right. I don’t know whatTF is going on, but I don’t trust as far as I can spit the narrative that’s - still - spewing, Permanent Bullshit Blizzard style, from the lamestream; and from, it seems to me, too many of the supposedly dissident, sceptical altstream outfits.
I’m also a bit confused about what you’re saying above about 6% versus 94%, and co-morbidities; and a lower real death-rate from covid means it’s much more dangerous than we thought. How does that work? Open to persuasion, natch bro. But I don’t see it. And, equally to the point for one such as me who has long cultivated the idea that rational knowing and intuitive knowing are of equal status and importance in our overall knowing (as long as we do both sorts of enquiry with meticulous care), it doesn’t smell right…
BTW, this piece by CJHopkins, just posted at Off-G, gives a vivid, concise account - on the spot witnessed by Hopkins, who lives in Germany - of what actually happened in Berlin, and how the lugenpresse - everywhere - distorted it before, during and after.
I think it gets ever more realistic to say that - yes - governments all around the world are being leaned on, or are leaning themselves voluntarily, to distort and deceive. Which brings me back to my constant bedrock contention: who, if anyone, can we sit-at-homes trust to give meticulously honest information. I have virtually no candidates at the moment to fill that slot:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/02/new-normal-gleichschaltung/
And could someone please copypaste the whole of that Eva Bartlett piece please, since the Fraud won’t let me see it even through a two-line letter-box without jumping through their ‘I accept’ hoops, which I’m not about to do. Is it on dumpthegraun yet…?
Hey Rhis
Yes, I’m not saying you’re wrong to distrust everything. Ultimately we all choose what feels right to us from the information available, sensemaking to the best of our ability as we go.
My feeling is that if only the UK (for example) showed an increase in excess mortality then perhaps that is explicable through bad actors. But multiple countries simultaneously faking hundreds of thousands of death certificates? For now I’m believing that to be a step too far.
Am I right? I don’t know. I’d like to say time will tell, but to be honest we may never really know.
Let’s say 100 people got covid, went to hospital and ultimately died. Of those, 94 had high blood pressure, were overweight or had diabetes (for example). 6 didn’t have any of those things.
How many people did Covid kill?
In my book, it killed 100 people, some of whom had long term conditions and some of whom didnt. Seeing as high blood pressure, being overweight or having diabetes doesn’t typically kill you, (and similar numbers of overweight, or diabetic people are not dying every year as this year) it doesn’t seem credible to say that Covid had nothing to do with their deaths. The new take on this 94% statistic however (as demonstrated in the linked video above) is that Covid only killed the 6 people who had no other health issues, the other 94 died because they were overweight, had high blood pressure or were long term diabetic. Nothing to do with Covid.
That feels like sketchy accounting to me. Those people would be alive had they not caught Covid, and no amount of arguing that their deaths don’t count towards Covid deaths sounds very convincing to me.
If we lived in a society where only very few people were overweight etc. then perhaps we could at least say
seeing as there are very few people with these extra risk factors, Covid is not dangerous here
But we don’t. We live in a society brimming with these conditions, which means that there are millions of people at higher risk and the overall cost to our society of this disease sweeping through could be very high.
Actually what I was trying and failing to say was that a very unreliable PCR test could mean that Covid is more dangerous than we thought. If our PCR test throws up millions (say) of false positive results (i.e. it records a positive case where in reality that person had never had covid) then we would end up recording a very high number of cases. Lets say we record 1 million cases, and in that time we record 1000 deaths. That would mean we estimate the fatality of covid as
1000 deaths / 1,000,000 cases = 0.1% fatality rate
But, the PCR test is bogus! It falsely records waaaaaaaay more cases than there actually are. So the true number of cases is (for example) actually only 1000! And yet we still had 1000 deaths… hmmm This means that the fatality really is
1000 deaths / 1000 cases = 100%
Holy crap! A lot of false positives on the PCR means we seriously underestimated the fatality of the illness.
Of course this example is ludicrous, just to clear the point. I have no idea how the PCR test has been (ab)used, but it probably didn’t seriously under-estimate true number of cases.
Hope that clears up some of the issues that I was trying to explain before
Cheers
PP
OK Points taken. Just this one I want to address. I have seen curves of excess deaths from both US and UK (don’t ask me where as I’m not really a researcher so don’t save sources). In both cases, the peak of excess deaths was within a few days of lockdown. Also, in both cases, the curve was not a curve at all but a straight line up to the very peak, and a straight line down. This was completely out of kilter with natural curves and all the preceding data. So back to the question of what caused the massive spike. Here are some possibilities in no particular order:
- The fear mongering and then the lockdown, brought on early deaths of those with severe chronic illnesses
- The UK governments insistence on sending the sick into care homes, where clearly there is a very high proportion of those classed as vulnerable
- In the US, the very high financial incentives for hospitals and doctors to declare patients as Covid and the much greater incentive to put them on ventilators
- Lies, lies and more lies. We’ve been lied to about everything else, so why not lies about deaths (motive? increase the fear mongering)
I’m sure others can think of several more, but the “curves” of excess deaths were not natural.
I think UK Column has done some excellent work on numbers but you might have to do some trawling to find it all. Bon chance
Interesting thoughts @PatB - I’ll have a think about the points you raise.
But I don’t need to mull this one over - you’re spot on here.
I think UK Column has done some excellent work on numbers but you might have to do some trawling to find it all. Bon chance
Thanks for the ref! I’ll do a little digging around.
Cheers
PP
Some good satirical laughs in this Off-G piece. See in particular Loverats comment, on the Cymreig male voice choir singing in a field, properly ‘distanced’, and wearing ‘face coverings’. Be warned: you could wet yourself laughing… 
Link to the daft choir performance:
https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/coronavirus/welsh-choir-sing-together-after-lockdown/
7 news here said that she could face 15 years in jail - in theory. I don’t know when it will sink in with my climate activist friends, all gathering on Zoom to organise rallies and campaigns, that the Surveillance state can see everything they do, recognise them on Zoom where they aren’t wearing masks, and track them with drones - and under the emergency laws extended for another six months, the police have powers to do whatever they want without even getting a warrant.
The poor girl was humiliated into apologising for posting “incitement”, saying she had been “a bimbo” and didn’t realise it was forbidden. She was bailed to appear in January. This happened not in Melbourne where soldier patrol the streets looking for victims after 8pm, but in country Ballarat, where there are only Stage 3 restrictions, and few cases of virus. at least the video has woken some people up, but it’s not being talked about by civil rights folk, or Greens or Opposition parties. All dumb.