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Saker demonstrates the schizophrenia that the covid-hypnosis barrage creates, even in the savviest

Hi RG

That perfectly describes what happened in multiple countries around the world in 2020-2021. The UK (as I’ve shown before on this site), for example, had the biggest increase in excess mortality since the creation of the NHS. Similar stories are told in the US (still gripped by covid in the South), India, Brazil, Spain, etc etc etc etc etc.

Millions of deaths from a disease spreading freely in many countries around the world would uncontroversially be recognised as a pandemic both before and after 2009 when the WHO issued it’s formal definition. If influenza outbreaks are called pandemics, then so is this Corona outbreak - I just don’t see what the problem is.

Even if one tries to downplay the deaths - a common game among the covid sceptics crowd - the number of people who ended up in hospital with covid is still enough to justify the use of the word pandemic.

I think there is no need to continue arguing about the word. There have clearly been an enormous number of sick and dying people last year no matter what we want to call it.

The only controversy that I see is what ED raised above - the was a pandemic that was largely manufactured by ignoring known treatments.

Cheers
PP

PS

As I’ve asked you before, what are your trusted sources for thousands of vaccine related deaths? The sources for all cause mortality are far more reliable than anything you have come up with for deaths from vaccines… I find your reluctance to accept the impact of covid and your rush to accept any old nonsense for vaccine deaths very strange

Any old nonsense, P? EMA EudraVigilance, ONS, VAERS? Certainly they fall into my category of figures that can’t be trusted. But they all show an apparent storm of deaths, etc., just after getting stabbed. And they all admit, sotto voce, that their numbers are pretty certainly on the low side. Put that on one pan of the scale.

Then you mention hundreds of doctors worldwide asserting ICUs full with bona fide covid victims. I haven’t seen any such testimony. But it’s true that that might just be confirmation bias on my part. It happens! :slight_smile: It would help to have a run-down, so that could go on the other pan. I think it’s reasonable to guess that a lot of people have died of covid this past 18 months, worldwide. But so do people every year, of standard flu. Are the covid figures really hugely bigger? Or even bigger at all? How do we even know, since there’s still no universally agreed, reliable, true test for covid? I don’t see that as unarguably established.

I still don’t believe anyone at all yet has a reliable picture of what’s really happened. But I still feel persuaded by the ‘no pandemic’ hypothesis. Where is the huge pile of bodies? Anywhere? We have to keep searching, open-mindedly. That’s my intention, however fallibly carried out. Cheers bro! :wink: :slight_smile:

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This is direct from a doctor who works in the French public hospital, a surgeon, my student in fact. He visited the intensive care unit earlier this year. He said it was full of people who normally would not be there, hooked up on life extension that meant instead of dying with dignity in a hospice or at home they would die in the ICU. This was apparently being done to increase ICU capacity statistics. At the same time his operating room times for any non emergency surgery were cut drastically. This meant that surgery was being postponed. This was sending patients to private hospitals, what they call ‘cliniques’ in France. Because the state health insurance would not pay the full cost at the private hospitals, which are more expensive than the public, the patients would pay out of pocket. Thus, also, the privatization of health care was incentivized by covid policy. There is currently a huge increase in private clinics, generally owned by private consortiums, run as chains, throughout France. Get it?

Morning RG

So what do EMA, and ONS have to say about covid deaths I wonder? Have you checked? As I’ve said before VAERS and EudraVigilance are not records of vaccine deaths. They are records of cases that should be investigated. I’m still not seeing evidence of large numbers of actual vaccine deaths, but I’m currently pondering EDs arguments to see if I’m missing something.

It does look like you rush to accept an authority if you believe it to show a vaccine death, but will immediately denounce that same authority if it is in reference to covid deaths, to the point that you cannot even bring yourself to accept the entirely uncontroversial description of “pandemic”.

It’s similar to UKC and supporters who were quick to jump on ONS data if they thought that it showed no excess mortality and then drop it as an authority if it turned out to show high excess mortality after all.

How about Pierre Kory who testified before Congress under oath? How about Dan in London? How about the testimony and video of doctors in Milan or New York? How about testimony of doctors in India (which I’ve posted here before), or that coming out of Iran, and now Cuba? How about the conferences of doctors who are trying to work out the best treatment and care of the covid patients in their charge (available online and often without a journalist among them?). UCSF Grand Rounds was one such weekly conference that I’ve posted to this site before now. They had a good discussion one week talking about the PTSD trauma that doctors and nurses in the US were dealing with, as a result of the Covid stress. How about Tess Lawrie and the work she’s citing in promoting ivermectin? How about doctors in Austin, Texas right now saying that there are no more ICU beds available? Dr Mobeen Syed (pretty much dismissed on this site) has interviewed at least a dozen doctors talking about Covid patient care etc, including Dr Kory and Dr Marik. All these doctors give clear, detailed descriptions of the hellscape in hospitals around the world last year. They are very easy to find with just a tiny bit of searching.

I’m curious why you persistently just ignore or dismiss these frontline professionals? I think there might be an additional filter at play to the 5 in our website address!

How are these doctors’ actual descriptions of their day to day experience less valid than, for example, the anonymous nurse who was making tearful claims about “vaccine genocide” based on zero observed cases but who you were lauding as a brave voice of authority a few months back?

Whatever unbiased investigation of the truth looks like, it doesn’t look like this.

But hey. As you have said many times, we all have our blind spots. For some reason you can only see evidence on one side here and just can’t see it on the other. I have similar issues whenever I hear the words “Russian Hacking”.

I feel like we’ve had this exact conversation about three or four times now. I don’t think we need to make it five! I’ll just accept that you’re never going to look at evidence of covid deaths (no matter the provenance) and continue to insist based on no evidence that there were only very few. It’s your story and your gonna stick with it. Fair enough.

For my part, I’ll keep trying to get my head around these hypothesised vaccine deaths to see if I’m missing something obvious here. Wouldn’t be the first time for me.

Cheers bwana.

PP

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Hi PP. I’ve always thought that the sixth filter might be simply bias. It’s not really a separate filter as it’s exerted by the other filters. Nevertheless it is an essential consideration when evaluating information and commentary. Every medical paper and commentary requires a declaration of any conflict of interest. OK, nothing there you don’t already know!

Would I be right in saying that the central question you are debating with Rhis allows a certain flexibility of definition?
Claims have been made that hosptials weren’t busy and I think this is true of some. Not true of others.
There’s a lot in your big paragraph but it’s evidence of stress reactions. How much is this stress really due to the inherent, unalterable dangerousness of covid, and how much is due to the impossibility of acting out often harmful and changing government guidance and restrictions while treating patients who are, unarguably, sick?

I’m wondering what acount you take of the damning report posted this morning that was written by Ian Davis of OffG. There’s a lot in it and the revelations must have casued massive stress in hospitals and care homes. It seems it was even worse in parts of the US and in Canada. This raises the question - all those people you cite, what exactly were their complaints, and which side of the argument would these complaints support most? Perhaps it would be a useful exercise to lay some of these complaints out (or perhaps not!).

OTOH vaccine deaths are hard to pin down - with no counting methodology in place, it’s easy to say “Where are the bodies”. I think this slants the debate so that it looks like it’s numbers vs anecdotes. This confers a considerable, automatic - and unfair - advantage to the authorities. The opposition have to disprove flawed numbers for which they don’t have full information, while being attacked for any inaccuracies and for having no systematically gathered numbers of their own - for ‘only’ having ‘anecdotes’. This suggests the bias created by the combination of offical miscounting of favourable events on one side and discounting of the unfavourable events on the other is large.

I’m sure we’re all guilty of a bit of confirmation bias, but part of discerning is being aware of bias in sources and deciding when to look further. If the government or an authority admit something that is to their detriment it is probably true. Doesn’t mean the next thing they say should be trusted.

I’m not trying to prove either of your cases, or take any sides, just pointing out the starting point may be biased in your favour. I don’t know of any particular framework that might redress the inbuilt bias - there’s no algorithm for doing this (thank god!) it would look like an adhommers charter :slightly_smiling_face:. But I feel it might help to narrow the focus of your disagreement with Rhis if this issue were recognized.

Hope helpful (apologies at the ready :slightly_smiling_face: ).
Cheers

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Glad to acknowledge the doctors’ reports of chaos and overwhelm in many hospitals around the world, P. As you know, I take dan-at-TLN’s personal testimony as a gold standard. It was clearly a bad time in London then. You’re quite right about confirmation bias (who doesn’t suffer from it?) and the list of instances which you give actually underlines mine. Agreed. More caution needed! :slight_smile:

The question continues to stand, though: what were all those people ill with? ALL the with the covid pathogen? Do we know? Zach Bush’s account of how this all really works seems to me, as I said, to be one of the best that I’ve seen yet. And that doesn’t square at all with the geopolitically-handy meme of a dreadful global killer plague. He, btw, remains neutral about what’s really going on politically, sticking just to what he sees as the mechanisms at work epidemiologically; outstandingly enlightening. There’s also this question of the widely-bandied IFR of about 0.04. Is it true? I don’t know, but if it is, where’s the mass-death-creator there? And then there’s the dogs-breakfast of the PCR…

There’s another problem, though, on which I suspect we may not disagree: There’s been a huge, sustained propaganda campaign around this alleged pandemic. Only the obdurately, wilfully blind can fail to see that. All dolled up as ‘entirely-appropriate public concern over a really big danger’ of course. Yet unmistakably to my eye, an arrant racket. Lots of ‘influencers’ have been spreading obviously iffy narratives, which I suspect a lot of them have been hypnotised - quite literally! - into believing, by the self-evident trance-induction and NLP techniques which have been - and continue to be - poured over us this past year and a half: an obvious mass-hypnosis campaign. Seeing this, you just can’t help concluding that something deeply criminal, and deeply deceptive, is going on. Why? What’s it for? Are the PTsB really all that concerned for our welfare, that they’re hypnotising us for our own good? SPI-B is populated entirely by angels! Yeah, right…

I should just underline that susceptibility to this sort of perception-manipulation is quite independent of intelligence or degree of information known. It just depends where fate has placed one on the suggestibility-curve. Almost everyone - though not quite all - is susceptible to some degree; about ten percent of us markedly so. (I speak as one who’s used hypnotic induction techniques on people for various healing purposes. I’ve actually watched it’s remarkable power. Every stage-hypnosis entertainment act relies crucially on this reality.)

This background reality being so, as I affirm strongly that it is, I suggest that nothing we’re being told about the ‘pandemic’ can be trusted. Taking Zach B’s slant on board, we can acknowledge that something very bad was happening in London, NYC, Lombardia, and elsewhere (and yes, I remember Pierre Kory’s testimony of a flood of treatable cases which he fielded; entirely convincing to me) but what exactly was it that hit them all? I suggest that we have a good while to wait before all that comes out in the wash over the next few years, as lots of people continue delving into it.

Meanwhile, there are a few ad-hoc rules on which we can stake our lives (as I have twice now, already*) with enough confidence: That there’s a huge mass-hypnosis swindle going on; that the IFR of the illness is piddling; and that we just can’t put too much weight on any ‘facts’ currently available, in this time of weltering deceit, until they’ve been thoroughly scrutinised, a process which has barely begun yet, and which will take years. We’re going to have to do a lot of revising of judgement in that time. Me too, natch. :slight_smile:

I have to acknowledge that there’s much food for (confirmation-bias restraining) thought in your post, P. Must try harder to get a true balance…! Thanks for your patient, restrained persistence. Such courteous restraint in dealing with hot-heads is admirable. :slight_smile: And commiserations with the obviously scarifying distress you’ve experienced in watching bad things happening amongst your circle of acquaintance. I haven’t had to cope with anything like that. Cheers, bro.


*As well as what I take to be an initial bout with the covid pathogen (whatever it is) in the late Spring of last year, a few days ago something odd swept through the little knot of boat-dwellers where I live, and I had a very brief experience of it, extremely mild, but just about perceptible. In both instances, the symptoms - such as they were - were the classic early-warning ones which try it on with me every Winter flu season, and which vanish under the persuasion of mega-dose C, reliably, as they have for over quarter of a century now for me.

We here reckon that a work-mate of one of my neighbours, who has already had two doses of the poison-stabs, was sick to the point of being off work with - well, something fluey; in July, FFS! - whereby my neighbour got it from him, brought it back, and it passed through us all within about a week, after which it was gone. Flying completely blind, as I am, I took this to be the covid pathogen; once again demonstrating what a piece of piss it is to off it without rushing to the GP or to hospital. Something markedly less than even a mild cold, in fact, for all of us sturdy peasants. I’m guessing that we’re all already primed with natural complete immunity, since last year, and that’s why none of us has had anything more than mild and transient symptoms. This includes a neighbour in late middle age, who has chronic COPD, but who also follows my approach of hitting respiratory illnesses with big-dose C; and we’re all taking plenty of D too, and getting out bare-armed into the sunshine. None of us has had any bother, and all are now recovered.

Anecdotal, I know. But just now, in this time of universal deceit and corruption, directly-experienced anecdotals are about the most reliable truths we can find, I think.

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Hey Rhis, concerning Dan at TLN, I assume, yes, he’s a doctor, but do you know that for sure? Any actual proof besides his own statements on the board?

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As Greta would say, “How dare you”. Actually, I think it is a valid question and even if he is a real doc, there are many other questions to be asked of him. For instance:

If the ER is “crammed”, how does it compare to 2017, 2018, or 2019?

What are their treatment protocols for Coroni?

Are they taking patients from other hospitals shut or partially shut to stop “the virus”?

Then we may (if he is real) have a more balanced picture of what he is experiencing

No proof, E. I’m just going on some years of interacting with him on-line, and the fact that other regulars at MLMB and TLN met him convivially in London several times. There was never any smell of a rat that I ever sensed. I’m just taking a gamble on it, as we have to on so much, just now. I do understand the paranoia which comes over people at times like this, dumped into ‘the wilderness of mirrors’, and left to suss our own way out. We start seeing psyops-operator plants everywhere; and undoubtably there are plenty about. Never suspected this about dan though. I spend a lot of time on the diaphanously thin ice of intuition these day, because I can’t see anything else much that has any convincingly solid trustworthiness. Annoyingly, I was never a star at intuitive cognition; only so-so. :thinking:

PS: I should say that I often got a sense of confusion, or things not aligning perfectly from end to end, in dan’s thinking, as expressed on the message boards. There was never a lot of detailed description of what line they were taking in dan’s hospital last year. I imagine that he was just as puzzled as the rest of us about what to think. And then, of course. the tempting official narrative is always there to lure in the unwary. I suspect that dan didn’t always know what to think, in his professional capacity. This is the sense of what I gleaned from dan’s input to the boards. Pat’s questions are to the point.

Exact same question I’ve always asked.

Dan might be a good guy, but his latest post on TLN reads like a propaganda piece from the Guardian or BBC.

I have 0.0% doubt Dan is what he says. His credibility goes back years when medicine wasn’t an issue on the board(s). I’ve seen many pieces from doctors that are deluded - not in a mad way, but with false claims or assumptions taken from poor official sources that they believe can’t be wrong. Busy ones often don’t keep up. It’s not remarkable, not very different from other political structures like the media and government.

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And add in that ubiquitous tendency to suggestibility, which afflicts all sorts, indiscriminately, depending entirely on what chance hand you happen to draw from fate. All sorts of ‘solid, reliable, no-nonsense, well-informed’ people are prone to it - visibly so right now; and it’s been flooded out in a constant avalanche since the Spring of 2020. Doesn’t matter how ‘reliable’ you are. Who can stand against the avalanche…?

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Evvy, any sentient being can pull this whole covid narrative apart in about five seconds flat.

Perhaps people like Dan like having all their human rights taken from them.

Watch what is going to happen in France tomorrow (Saturday).

Of course, all these protestors should be rounded up and put in concentration camps (that is what’s going to happen next).

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Five seconds - about one line? Go on then :slight_smile:

Clearly people like doctors don’t see the medical issues in terms of human rights - because they think the vaccine is a good bet, and needed because the clamour says that antivirals etc don’t work. Most Drs took this side of it straight off the spoon. Elsewhere I mentioned two GPs (definitely doctors) that hadn’t heard of ivermectin. These are the kinds of people advising about the vaccine!
So it’s not remotely suspicious that a doctor is following the line.

Good luck tomorrow if you’re out. I’ll be following with interest.

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One line…?

If you don’t stand up against this now you are fucked.

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Drug dealers essentially, aren’t they.

One line? Three words: Do Not Collaborate

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I tend to agree Evvy, but on the other hand, now we have four or five people on this board who say they have, in fact, no proof. We all ‘assume’ he is who he says he is…probably he is, but we have no proof, so far, on this board.

Hi @Everyman and everyone

I know for 100% fact that Dan is a senior doctor in a hospital in London. I’ve met him twice for beers back when I lived in London, I know which hospital he worked in as a junior doctor (the same hospital that my mother got her hip operations - we had a chat about that) and I know which hospital he works in now. His picture is up on their website and his published works are available online. I won’t publish more details about him as it breaks our own moderation guidelines regarding doxxing people by publishing details of their private lives. You could email him if you wanted to ask him and if he wants to make those details public he can choose to.

But there is no question that Dan is who he says he is.

Cheers
PP

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Cheers Pontius! that’s what I’m here for. I’m not interested in getting in touch with him, I was just looking for confirmation that indeed he is a real doctor. thanks!! Everyman

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