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Propaganda in the time of Covid

A really great discussion on propaganda and the cost of resisting during the age of Covid.

Loads of interesting stuff here including, mask wearing, vaccines, terror derangement syndrome, Fauci et al. and plenty more. The thread running through the whole thing is how pervasive and refined modern day propaganda is.

From the podcast blurb

The ladies talk to Mark Crispin Miller, the NYU professor suing his colleagues for libel over a classroom masking controversy, about covid heresy, academic freedom, conspiracy theories, Edward Bernays, and the changing face of propaganda in the internet age.

Read and sign Professor Miller’s Change.org petition here and donate to his GoFundMe here.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/45461251

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You can get a sense of the man (I really had never heard of him) by checking out his website

Can’t see a link to the podcast, P…? Also, this reply box is preventing me from going back a page to look again at your post before replying. Even when I delete Safari and open it again, I get the same runaround.

PS: One likeable snippet that I picked up whilst searching about Mark’s website (trying to make some sense of it; it’s a bit chaotic…) was a French-language comment which spoke of “les moutons enrage”. :slight_smile: Enraged by TDS, I suppose…

It’s the patreon link at the end of the post.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/45461251

Ah right. I tend to avoid patreon because they censor content. Didn’t see the podcast there. Thanks!

Np! I think you’ll find it pretty interesting. Enjoy!

Excellent stuff, P! Thanks for the headsup. Mark has been on my radar for some time, but this definitely bumps him up into my premier-advisors circle!

Very striking story at 28 mins. of previously-solid, principled-dissident, savvily-canny colleagues who - ahem! - go rather to pieces under the potent influence - as it seems - of Terror Derangement Syndrome. We’ve both bumped up against that! :slight_smile: That weird sheep/goats split! What drives it, I wonder? Basic personality difference? Actual fear of death? Whatever it is, it’s a prime tool for the manipulators to stampede a critical mass of we plebs, whenever they think they perceive a pressing necessity to do it.

The podcast is heavy with excellent insights and vivid vignettes. Three savvy, absolutely-unstampeded goats in conversation. :smile:

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Hi RG,

Yes, I found the whole podcast very interesting. The story of how a single tweet from a disaffected student can lead to a prof losing their job is horrendous. But a common sign of our times, it seems. The fact that propaganda seems to rely on many people picking it up and amplifying it through their own channels in the belief that they are doing good public work is a point to think on deeply… And yes, the undoubted influence of a fear-mongering strategy is writ plain to see. And I speak as someone who is very much of the opinion that we have a dangerous and out of control virus spreading through this country. Those two positions are not mutually exclusive!

Glad you like it bwana. I thought it was very good!

Cheers
PP

No, not mutually exclusive, P, I quite agree. But I wonder about the adjectives:

Dangerous? Yes, moderately, though I’d need to see the all-causes death figures for this year, cleansed of all the shenanigans to which they’ve - obviously - been subjected, and finally clarified, before I’d agree that, yes, it was a really bad killer, justifying the word ‘pandemic’. Currently, I doubt that. As the guys at UKColumn said: ‘The all-causes death figures are hardest to fiddle’. The truth about that will come out eventually, I believe.

And ‘out of control’? I have to say, the very idea of humankind being able to control the behaviour, and the continuous, non-stoppable evolution, of the air-plankton - ever - is just a huge joke, at the expense of our ludicrous self-importance. Is there an uptick in deaths from respiratory diseases this Winter? Yes of course, how not? Is it mainly covid? Who knows? Not us. Quite possibly not anyone for sure, considering the utter Johnsonian omnishambles of this year, and the equally obvious manipulative deceits that have been flying about. Noticeable, though, that lots of normally-expected deaths from flu, heart-failures, etc., seem to have been banished almost completely by the magic of covid…?

In the event that there is a lot of excess death, and it really is due to covid, then what we could do right now, to really mitigate the disaster as far as is - genuinely - humanly possible (rather than allowing a set of probably quite criminal manipulators continue to make monkeys out of us all, and run us ragged with lying terror-porn, with doubtful purposes in mind) is to follow the sober prescriptions of the Great Barrington Declaration. What we are doing gets to be ever more obviously a total nonsense; not liable to have any noticeable effect on the illness, but wreaking horrendous damage on the entire fabric of society - including avoidable excess deaths - in the mean time. Cheers bro! :slight_smile:

One of the things I most enjoy about this little site is how we can agree on some things and disagree on others, without just throwing our toys out of the pram… Long may that continue!

As you know, I’m no fan of the GB proposal. My choice would be locally based, active public health measures - finding out who is really sick in our community - and full support for those who have the illness. That includes immediate Ivermectin, HCQ, vit C,D etc. As well as food deliveries and payments to allow all infected people (whether showing symptoms or not) to stay home for 2 weeks and not infect others. In fact I would just hand out vit C,D and Ivermectin to everyone I could, regardless of whether they’re infected or not. And I would quarantine travellers arriving into the UK for 2 weeks.

This basic procedure seems to work quite effectively, and allows 99% of people to continue on with their lives with minimal change… It’s what the independent Sage group is proposing.

And I would scrap all the private initiatives (apps etc) and investigate the entire bunch of then for corruption and cronyism, starting with BoJo and Cummings…

Edit: just had another idea (in case anyone from the government is following my advice). I would offer all infected people the option of a free hotel room to quarantine in for 10-14 days, so they could choose to isolate away from potentially vulnerable family members. That would have been a hell of a lot better than the eat-out-to-help-out nonsense.

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Thanks for the links (and more generally this website). I don’t post much (to do with lack of time) but I often check out the interesting links – like the present interview, and many others. (Thanks Rhis.) I had never heard of this Miller guy. Good to hear of him, but also deeply worrying how academic freedom in Universities is being severely eroded.

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It’s great to see you here, W, albeit infrequently.

Cheers
PP

“Yes, moderately, though I’d need to see the all-causes death figures for this year, cleansed of all the shenanigans to which they’ve - obviously - been subjected, and finally clarified, before I’d agree that, yes, it was a really bad killer, justifying the word ‘pandemic’.”

Yep Rhis, excess deaths is almost the only objective data. The ONS is the best one-stop source I know of (not necessarily this graph for regular data though):

As far as I can tell, the excess deaths have risen over the year, comparably to the registered covid-19deaths - confirming there has been, technically, an epidemic of something in this country, at least.
However things are not as simple. See the graph entitled’ Number of excess deaths by place of occurrence, England and Wales’

This shows that there are a remarkably high number of excess deaths at home. It is not shown on this graph, but these at-home deaths are non-Covid deaths. The graph where this is shown is missing from the place I usually look at, but here’s an older copy:

The key is missing but white parts of the bars are excess, non-Covid deaths at home. These show that compared with the 5-year average, a significant number of non-covid deaths were occurring at home.
Correspondingly there is an equally significant drop in hospital non-covid deaths. The obvious interpretation is that Covid-19 hospitalizations are displacing non-covid hospitalizations. This echoes a point maintained by Willem (Hi :slight_smile: ) for the duration - the fact that that lockdown effects are not monitored is adding to the apparent toll due to covid. It would be interesting to examine.data on these hospitalizations by disease.

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Are we sure of that? Dr John Campbell looks at death certificates that mention Covid as one of the causes of death - that seems like a reasonable thing to me. That number is 79K deaths in the UK, incidentally.

In any case - if they are all, or even mostly non-covid deaths, then this is one good measure of some of the harm costs of lockdowns and overrun hospitals.

Tragic, but interesting.

Cheers

edit: I see that you’ve already joined those dots in your last edit :wink: Nice one!

Hi PP. Need to be careful here - I’m not saying these detract from the covid deaths, it’s something that is happening alongside the covid deaths and presumably caused by covid policies; either non-covid cases not getting to the Dr or to hospital, or being released early, or outpatient appointments falling away. so not feeding into hospital numbers as they usually do.

Pro-vaccine propaganda in the MSM has been raging the last couple of days or so - possibly due to the imminent news on whether the Oxford vaccine will be okayed by regulators.
Not that the media could be trying to pressure the regulators or anything…all they have to do is pass the vaccine and we’ll ALL be saved, that’s all. And if they don’t, we won’t be free until they do. No pressure…

That’s ‘New modelling’ where there’s no brakes on like existing immunity. The only terminology the public need to know are the buzzwords ‘exponential growth’ and ‘infinity’ :wink:

Here’s a clutch of hysterical pieces, helpfully collated by … Media Lens? no - ITN!

28/12/20 ‘A shot of freedom’: Oxford Covid vaccine dominates front pages

The national front pages are lit up with the promise of a new jab to protect Britons against coronavirus.

Tomorrow’s front page: Oxford coronavirus vaccine hailed as ‘winning formula’ with 15million people ‘to be immune by March’ https://thesun.co.uk/news/13585640/

Monday’s TELEGRAPH: Volunteer army ready to distribute Covid vaccine

Monday’s MAIL: A jab in your village hall

Express: WE’LL BE FREE BY FEBRUARY

Monday’s front page: A shot at freedom

[Link on same page shows pressure on regulators:
Covid: ‘Winning formula’ Oxford vaccine could be approved within days, ITV News understands


Dont-stop-me-now…]

I’m sure given the politics the UK permission for the Oxford vaccine is a shoe-in, but this media and establishment pressure to force the outcome is annoying; if the regulators have something to swither over, they should be allowed to swither in peace. If they wrongly suppress the legitimate objections that are known to exist, the beneficiaries will not be the public but the biased or cynical media, politicians, scene-shakers and med-sellers (darn, where’s Rhis’s handbook of alternative names when you want one).

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Remember when the Oxford vaccine had a 62% (or thereabouts) efficacy? It then got bumped up to 72% due to dodgy statistics, and a very lucky “mistake” in dosing.

Now apparently it’s at 95% efficacy.

I find it curious that the Sputnik vaccine (based on similar tech to the Oxford one) reported an efficacy of 95%, and that after the fiasco of publishing the results, Oxford and Astrazeneca approached the Sputnik team to get some help and advice on possibly combining the tech to improve performance. Suddenly here we are also at 95%, just like Sputnik.

Hmmmm… I wonder what the true story is here, and whether it will ever get reported? Perhaps the “winning formula” was to throw away their vaccine, and rebrand the Sputnik one as their own?

The combination of the jingoism and vaccine porn is not a good one(!). Nice collection of links there.

Cheers
PP

Yeah that 95% didn’t exist before even as a dodgy subgroup fluke, well spotted. Maybe the Russians just advised on how to spin better…

The other liberty that is being taken is with the daily barrage of ‘cases’. However, the number of tests has not been updated for at least 4 days, making comparison impossible.

The last I was able to check, cases rose only in line with tests. Possibly the new variant has changed that - but it would be nice given if a count could be provided of the number of tests this barrage of cases is based on, given we are expected to swallow everything that the barrage can be claimed to imply.

There has been no increase in deaths seen yet from these extra ‘cases’ (which are positive pcr tests). ‘Cases’ have been rising since Dec 18 - so it’s still a bit early for extra genuine cases to show in extra deaths.

Yeah, the case thing is still puzzling to me. Lots could be said about all that, but not tonight and not by me - to the relief of all :wink:.

Incidentally, I don’t know exactly where the worldometer folk get their data from. Have you looked directly at the UK gov covid API? In principle you should be able to get whatever you need there, if it’s published

Cheers