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Pontius: A question occurs -

Hi bro! It just came to me whilst listening to Reiner M’s exposition on the covid scam this morning that we may not actually disagree at all about the real situation with covid.

As you know, I lean towards the idea that there is in fact no pandemic at all; just a welter of deliberately-faked ‘tests’ which are not worth the dross under our shoes. But I hear you when you tell me of personal knowledge of people who have been sick, and some who’ve died, apparently of covid-flu.

Now, I never thought that there’s no nasty new flu about; only that it isn’t a pandemic, any more than any other new flu variant sweeping round the world on its way to herd immunity and endemic minor nuisance status is a pandemic in any honest meaning of the word. And neither of us has any problem at all with the idea that people living at or near Third World / Abused and Deprived Eighty Percent (ADEP) status are going to be disproportionately affected even by such relatively minor threats as annual flus - which of course do indeed kill a minority of sufferers every year.

And yes indeed - shamefully - even in Britain there is a smallish hidden underclass of citizens who for all practical purposes are near, or even over, the border between PTP and ADEP. Amongst them, I wouldn’t at all wonder, there could easily be disproportionate suffering even from what are just mild, easily ridden-out illnesses for those in blooming good health. I have met from time to time here in Britain desperate undocumented people who are scraping up a minuscule living, often living on the streets, who seem to me nearly as destitute as street dwellers whom I met in places like Kolkata and Mumbai.

It occurs to me, P, that with your personal and ancestral links, you may perhaps know and be in contact with a larger number of such struggling folk, compared to we sheltered mooncalves of the Pampered Twenty Percent - which means pretty nearly the entire population of Britain.

As you know, I’ve been giving out that I had the covid-flu in late Spring last year, but it keeps occurring to me that I don’t really know that that was actually the covid pathogen. It could have been something else. I only identified it as such because it took me three days to off it with my usual C-storm, rather than the one day it usually takes to see off any early cold/flu symptoms. And it came bang on cue, as I’d been blithely ignoring all the self-isolation hysteria and was going out and about as normal. I got my personal exosome message, passed it to my immune system, and acquired long-term, natural, balanced immunity and non-infectiousness thereby. With thanks! That’s my interpretation, anyway.

Now, I’d been persuaded to take one of the up-yer-nose ‘tests’ by friends, early on before it became clear that the whole thing was a stupid scam. It came back negative, but since the ‘tests’ are literally zero-percent trustworthy, I discount that. So, the doubt lingers in my mind: Did I really get covid…? This prompts me to ask: do you know with any certainty what your contacts have suffered? Was it definitely covid? And indeed, seeing as the only reliable identifier seems to be clinical symptoms in full range, how do any of us know?

Being one of the PTP mooncalves myself, it didn’t occur to me that you might be in touch with people who didn’t have the privileged conditions from which I started when dealing with my encounter with covid. As we both know perfectly well, for people in that ADEP fix, such an infection really could be a life and death matter; and again it would be for a larger percentage of them, simply because of the weakness that deprived living creates in all who endure it.

Just thought: what we’re doing is the ‘blind men describing an elephant’ routine: I’m describing the tail, you’ve got the trunk, both of us are reporting bits of the whole as we find them…? So - no contradiction…? Cheers! :wink:

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Hi RG

A very quick one just now.

1 - a “new flu variant sweeping round the world on its way to herd immunity” is basically the definition of the word “pandemic” as I understand it.

2 - the death rate of this new 'flu is about 5-10 x that of a regular influenza. If we agree on these tow points then I think we agree on a lot.

3 - I think PCR is an excellent test of whether one has come into contact with the virus. Not perfect by a long shot, but very good nonetheless. I think it can be a terrible test of whether one will get ill or be infectious, though.

4 - those people who I know got sick, were PCR tested when they were already showing classic symptoms, so I feel pretty confident that covid is what they had. There were a couple who got sick but didn’t get tested, and I don’t count them amongst people who definitely had covid.

5 - on the subject of preparing and maintaining your immune system, I have never had an argument that such actions are likely to severely reduce the severity of covid. Unfortunately many people don’t do that, and for poor people in particular, they often have several comorbidities that make them even more susceptible. This is something I’ve been saying for ages here. The vulnerable in our society deserve protection.

Anyway, I have to get my own mum to hospital now. I’ll check in again later.

Cheers
PP

Sending mum a special dedicated chi stream, out of all the stuff I work with daily. May she be well pronto. :kissing_heart:

A brief other response: the word ‘pandemic’ if it’s to be used honestly has to include masses of excess deaths coming all together in a rush. I know we’ve been fed the idea that this is happening with covid, but I don’t believe it. I think that that is probably a deliberate propaganda lie. I see no - key word! - reliable evidence of huge excess death. I also see none that the covid affliction is “5 - 10 X” more deadly than an average influenza, even amongst the 0.4 percent who - apparently - are genuinely at risk of death from it. Nor, I have to say, do the people whom I trust to be telling the truth about the scam; speaking of those who are appropriately qualified, of course, and who have actually been treating patients with covid, in substantial numbers. I tend to discount just about all the abstracted statistics put out about it, because we have, I think, ample evidence that widespread faking and swindling is going on there. So - discount everything until we have chance, finally, to sort the sheep from the goats.

Can’t do that yet, I don’t believe. The manipulators - for whom the scam doesn’t appear to be going all that well - are trying every deceit they think they can float to keep us all stampeding. They seem to have something of an air of desperation that the scam isn’t going the way it was meant to. Not enough people taking the poison-stabs which seem to have been one of the main aims of this whole scam: to get everyone stabbed; but lots are just not doing it.

So - no time to just take any assertion on trust. Stay sceptical and wait and see.

And quite honestly, I can’t see how we can see the PCR ‘test’ - as it’s getting used for the scam - as anything other than a 100% untrustworthy to give any useful picture of what the covid-flu is actually doing. Again, I note that those trusted commentators also dismiss it as being useful for this purpose; though still excellent for the original use for which Kary Mullis developed it and got the prize.

Consequently, I can’t accept that your sick acquaintances were certain to be ill with covid, unless the clinical symptoms were also observed, to justify the diagnosis. It’s entirely likely, of course, since there has indeed been a lot of it about. But I’m mystified about how we can tell for sure, especially since the symptoms seem to be shared by various strains of flu. I only assume what I take to be my own infection was indeed covid because the - very mild - early symptoms matched what was being described by clinicians actually treating cases, but also because it hung around much longer - albeit very mildly the whole time - for three times the period that other attempted flu/cold infections do in my - C-soaked :slight_smile: - experience. I had had a PCR test (not knowing any better at the time) a short while prior to this experience, and it had come back negative. But I’m assuming that that was a typical instance of its fundamental unreliability.

We seem to have starkly different pictures of this whole thing, P. I don’t really get why, apart from that old idea of the blind men and the elephant, which in these highly-mystifying times seems apt: we’ve both got a part of the picture, but no-one as yet has the whole image en claire. Time will have to pass before a consensus can be reached about what really happened.

I think that has now happened with the 11/9 scam, where across the world many millions have awoken to the fact that it was a false-flag, even though the people behind it are still maintaining the - increasingly decrepit - facade of the official fairy-tale, though the accumulated hard evidence has demolished it comprehensively. I suspect that the history of the covid episode will end up in the same condition: a messy draw, for the time being, until the perps. are finally all dead; what time a new generations of historians will be able to out the real truth, long after it’s all withdrawn into history. Who is still denying the realities of the Reichstag Fire now, though it happened in the 1930s, and took years to be fully outed for what it was? I fear that the real story about covid 19 will take that long to come out.

Cheers, bro. Best to your mother!!

Sorry PP but I don’t read Scientific American, New York Times, or the Washington Post, or watch BBC and Sky News. Where do you get your figures from?

Perhaps listen to Kary Mullis? Many well publicised quotes, like, “With PCR, you can find anything in anyone”

Anyway, best wishes to Mum

Hi Pat

Multiple data sources from different countries, and multiple papers published on the impact and spread of covid. Some of that ends up reported in the in the mainstream outlets you mention, and some doesn’t.

Yes, I have listened to a fair bit of Mullis now. Actually it was you who pointed me at him in the first place, for which I’m grateful. He was a very interesting guy. For reasons I’ve explained a few times before, however, I still believe that PCR is the best tool we have for this situation. Certainly better than any other test.

Thanks for the kind thoughts about my mum. Life gets to be a struggle beyond a certain age, that’s for sure!

Cheers
PP

Thanks for the chi RG. Poor mum needs all the help she can get at the mo…

Anyway.

As far as “pandemic” goes, it’s uncontroversial to call a widespread 'flu a “pandemic” 'flu. In all the academic contexts that I’ve looked over the last 18 months I’ve seen that phrase used many, many times. This is a pandemic coronavirus by the same definition.

All the people I personally know of who died from Covid had both covid symptoms and a positive PCR. Additionally it was always the case that other family members also had positive tests and symptoms of covid at the same time. Not everyone in the family died though (although 3 died in one Indian family). If that’s not convincing to you, then you’ll have to tell me what would be convincing to you. As I’ve said before, I have never heard of any of my acquaintances dying of the 'flu. But I do know people who died of this. That’s enough for me to treat this disease with a good deal of respect!

The main difference between us seems to be on the question of how dangerous it is. You seem to be be of the opinion that this is a “worse than usual flu”. I’m quantifying that by saying “5-10” times more deadly. I’m not sure how big a difference there is, in the end, between those two statements… There is certainly a lot more direct evidence of covid deaths than, say, vaccine deaths.

As for the PCR question, I’ve spoken about that at length. I don’t see a better tool out there at the moment. One has to remember that while it can be abused, it also does detect what it’s supposed to detect.

Yes, I’m sure that there have been distortions and manipulations along the way. Yes, I’m sure that the pharma companies are not giving true accounts of vaccines and treatments etc.

None of that, however, changes the direct experience that I have from my own life and my own circle, which is what you were getting at with this thread.

Cheers my friend.
PP

Indeed, P. Deeply sobering and traumatising experience. Sympathies to you. I can see why such grim direct personal witnessing would drive you to extreme caution around the illness, and what we think we know about it. I guess a good deal of my different, more upbeat attitude is that - literally - I haven’t personally had a single bad experience such has befallen you, and my own - assumed - bout with covid was a pushover. If it really was covid, it shows that outcomes are less age-related, and more about underlying robust good health. Think I’ve been really lucky that way - and quite prudent with it, of course.

All that would make a difference in our emotional responses, obviously, between your sober caution and my inherent recklessness. :slight_smile:

Once again I can only fall back on the old saw (whoops! painful!) of Watch and Wait.

Till then, we can hold to one of the civilised principles on which this website is founded: when agreement can’t be reached, agree affably to differ, and leave it at that till time washes out the answers - if ever! :slight_smile:

Cheers good bro. See you soon, I hope. The general flood of chi, coming in in a great gyre from the universe, continues to wash over all the kindred of life on Mam Gaia’s planet, with dedicated particular strands for identified individuals, for as long as I can continue to work the daily shamanic rituals. After yesterday’s multi-bus schlep to the local hosp’s eye clinic for another stab in the eye, I wonder how much longer that will be. The treatment itself was no bother, but the bloody journey, for this ever more infirm old body, was a bastard: a total of three miles on foot, between bleedin’ buses and home. Wot larks…! Struggle on, old friend! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: - Rh

Oh, PS: This from Colin Todhunter on developments in India may be relevant to these discussions:

Oh, and PPS: If life is becoming more of a struggle with the passing of time, take a look at an AEHousman poem called ‘The Heart of Man’. Grimmish, but in the end an assertion that we can stand it…

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Hi PP thanks for tagging me in :upside_down_face:

Hrmph :slightly_smiling_face: And if you adjust for noise amplification and reduction? What’s ringing in our ears isn’t evidence!
One thing that seems to stand out from the revelation from Scotland that at least as many people died within 28 days of receiving the vaccine as within 28 days of a PCR covid diagnosis is that if the vaccine is slashing covid deaths without reducing overall deaths, then it must be causing other deaths.

OTOH if the vaccine is not causing deaths then it can’t be reducing covid deaths either - a less plausible scenario in my view.

Sorry to hear about your Mum PP. All the very best to her and you.
ED

Thanks ED. I’m back in A&E now. The crush is unbelievable… Addenbrokes (one of the biggest hospitals around here) seems completely overwhelmed for some reason. Just taking a quick min then I’m off again :frowning:

I wasn’t even talking about stats. There is a ton of direct evidence of death from Covid. I’ve seen zero actual direct evidence of mass deaths from a vaccine.

Anyway. This discussion seems less important given where I’m standing just now.

Stay well everyone. It’s a mess out here

PP

Sorry, I maybe missed a post, I didn’t know it was so serious with your mum. Thoughts with you both
ED

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Ditto that.

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My Mum used to say “Old age is not for whimps”

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