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Pierre Kory and Joe Crem (hint, hint) in conversation. Concentrated, pure nitty-gritty

A priceless run-through of Pierre and colleagues’ coal-face experience, plus his constant surveying of the current literature. Deals with all the usual heroes: ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, hydrogen peroxide, IV-VIT-C!!, and all the rest. Pretty exhaustive.

Does anyone know a way to archive this vid here at 5F, so that it’s not lost when Joe has to do his gunpoint scrub, in less than 48 hours? Too good to lose. And incidentally, it also provides evidence of the widely-adopted criminality behind the grand lying swindle that’s been wrapped around this nasty but not particularly exceptional flu. Both Pierre and Joe seem to be still a short way from recognising the full enormity of the swindle; but they’re getting there! Pierre speaks passionately about proven, known-to-be-safe treatments that have been, as he says, “buried in corruption”, when he’s speaking of reliable treatments which have been wilfully censored and lied into outlawry, with their frontline prescribers being trashed by the whores; and of course by the Deceived Influencers - including many swindle-deluded doctors and just about all medical admin people; not to mention the clown-bureaucrats running the ‘public medical health’ agencies:

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/12/12/outpatient-treatments-for-covid-19-reviewed.aspx?ui=2f3bfcf549847ca1e7b0af382d075125c77b1c1b6cc40e7b3842aab1bdb1c7e5&sd=20201030&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20211212&mid=DM1058746&rid=1347831012

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There’s a transcript option under the video, but I don’t know how to save the video itself, even though Joe says it would be a good idea to save it.

“Both Pierre and Joe seem to be still a short way from recognising the full enormity of the swindle”

Joe has indicated elsewhere he’s under no illusions as to what is going on. He’s canny as to what he says and when. The purpose here is to reach doctors with a covid treatment protocol that clearly works. A bit of hard ‘truth’ would put off a lot of dear doctors from looking at it. You can see this pragmatism elsewhere from the FLCCC - for example, in their diplomatic dropping of hydroxychloroquine (replaced by Ivermectin) from the protocol. This is due to its ‘psychological side effects’ - i.e. it’s mere mention makes democrats,Trump-haters and the whole US tech world see red and grow horns :slightly_smiling_face:.

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Though Pierre does still endorse hydroxychloroquine verbally, himself.

Yes there wasn’t any medical reason to drop it, certainly for early ‘outpatient’ treatment. Ivermectin may work better in later stages, where Cory seems to be a leading expert.

Transcript of the talk between Dr Cremola and Dr Pierre Cory
[Part 1 of 3]
ED

A Review of the Outpatient Treatment Methods for COVID-
19:
A Special Interview With Dr. Pierre Kory
By Dr. Joseph Mercola
Dr. Mercola:
Welcome, everyone is Dr. Mercola, helping you take control of your health and today we have a
real treat for you is we’re talking to one of the leaders in the movement for addressing the
implementation of actually treating the COVID infection as an alternative to using the COVID
jab as a method of preventing it, which clearly it’s failed miserably. And so this is Dr. Pierre
Kory, he is a critical care physician. He’s triple-board certified internal medicine, critical care
and pulmonology, pulmonary medicine. And he just told me before we started recording that he
lost his job because of his position. So we’re going to hear the details of that and in engage in
some really interesting dialogue, you’ll definitely want to keep tuned. So welcome. And thank
you for joining us.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
All right. Thanks. Good to be here, Joe.
Dr. Mercola
So why don’t you give us a little background of you know, your history? And what and what led
to your recent termination? In your position?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah, I mean, you want me to have about the history and the pandemic or my career real quick?
Yeah, do
Dr. Mercola:
Career. Tell me briefly, you know, just so people know what your background is for those who
may not be aware of you? Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Sure. Anyway, basically, um, so I was a math major in college. I was fairly immature. When I
graduated from college, like a lot of young men didn’t know what I want to do. I was actually in
the restaurant business for most of my 20s. I went to medicine late 29.
Dr. Mercola:
That is late.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
That is, yeah, you know, while I was in restaurant business, I got a degree in like health policy.
And so I was studying health, I always wanted to be a doctor, I just was not mature enough. And
so anyway, went to medicine late.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
And became obviously – I went into internal medicine. And, you know, when I was in internal
medicine, I just thought the best doctors in the hospital were the pulmonary critical care, guys,
they just seem to be able to handle everything from the minor to the most severe and I just, I
don’t know, I just really respected those. I wanted to be like them. And so I became a long an
ICU specialist. And most of my career was in Manhattan, actually, at Beth Israel Medical Center
where I was, I helped run the ICU, I had a really busy outpatient and endoscopy like
bronchoscopy practice. And then I was recruited to the University of Wisconsin about five or six
years ago, where I was the chief of the critical care service. And I’ll just finish, you know, when
COVID hit, I was in a leadership position. And I very quickly saw that — I basically, I resigned,
because the way they were handling the pandemic, I felt sort of morally and ethically obligated, I
refuse to be in a position of leadership, Joe, when they were insisting on supportive care only. So
you know, I was on the phone every day with all my friends, colleagues and ICUs. In New York,
they were like getting buried, running out of ventilators. ICUs were overflowing everybody, that
the mortality rates, I don’t think people remember the mortality rates in that first surge in New
York, were just absolutely off the charts. And literally, the leaders in my specialty, were saying
oxygen, fluids and Tylenol.
Dr. Mercola:
Let me just interrupt your description for a bit. I’m just wondering, curious as to your thought
and why the mortality rate was so high early on with this retrospective scope that we have now?
Is it likely because they refused to give any treatment before, they basically told anyone with the
illness, “Go home and come back when you’re ready to die.”
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Well, not well. So certainly, the lack of early treatment would be part of it. I’m talking about
hospital mortality, because certainly – nobody really and even me, I gotta tell you at that time,
the way I was trained, Joe, I mean, I came out of the establishment. I mean, I was definitely
always a free thinker, and I had trouble in, in the ivory tower. But you know, I never really
thought there was an effective antiviral, you know, aside from you know, Valacyclovir, surely
not remdesivir. But like, I didn’t think it was anything specific for the early phase. The virus,
however, as an ICU physician, as a doctor was an expert in lung injury, and in severe lung injury
and acute respiratory failure that landed on a ventilator. I knew there was a bunch of stuff that we
could use and the fact that we were using nothing. Even anticoagulation, we could see that they
were clotting to the degree that I had never really seen before. That first phase of COVID the
clotting was through the roof. I will tell you, my opinion is the disease’s change. I don’t see the
degree of clotting, like I did in that first phase. There’s something that happens in the disease.
But they were literally telling us that we needed randomized controlled trials to do anything.
People were dying. No, I mean, you get you got how broken medicine is. But so the issue was,
all of my ideas were getting shouted down. And I was kind of almost, well, it was almost visible
that like, the clinical meetings that I was holding with all the hospitalists and all the intensivists.
My superiors were showing up and kind of now like getting me to stand down. Because I was
entertaining the idea that we should do this, this the other thing, and they didn’t want anything to
be done. And so I said, “I’m done.” You know, I’m leaving, and New York was begging for
people to come back because they were getting crushed.
Dr. Mercola 5:37
And so how long was ago was this when you left Wisconsin?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
We got our first patients, I would say mid-March 2020. I resigned by mid-April, early April, and
then and then. And then I went to New York for five weeks, and I ran my old ICU in New York.
And so I resigned from my first job then and so I already had a difference of opinion on how to
approach this disease. And I don’t know if you know this, but I gave testimony in the Senate in
May of 2020.
Dr. Mercola:
That was in, where it was, at the U.S. Senator Wisconsin?
Dr. Pierre Kory 6:14
The U.S. Senate. So it was in a homeland security meeting. And I gave testimony saying that it
was critical that the world use corticosteroids in the treatment of the hospital phase of this
disease. And I got killed, University of Wisconsin, because I was still kind of employed by them.
Like my actual resignation date hadn’t happened. They were livid that I was speaking in public
giving my opinion, which, if you know anything about academics, like I had an appointment as
Yeah, well, you know, and it makes sense. It’s largely reflection, not so much of their belief in it,
but the number of clinicians on their staff who are using it. I mean, it has an expiration date. So if
no one’s going to prescribe it, why buy it and have it available? No one’s going to, you know, use
it.
Dr. Pierre Kory 42:01
But one other thing, though, so there’s also a trial. So I talk mostly about this disease model of
septic shock. The disease model of ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome), had a really
interesting trial about three or four years ago, called the CITRIS-ALI, acute lung injury trial. And
they actually showed a profound mortality benefit. And in that trial, they use 50 milligrams per
kilogram IV Q=6, which is around a little bit over two, you know, for a regular 70-kilogram
male, you know, it’d be it’d be about 3.5. Right? So what was it or 2.5 milligrams, 2.5 grams IV
Q=6, so there, it’s about 10 grams a day. And they showed a large mortality benefit. And, and so
if you look at our doses, although we use 1.5, just because that was our standard dose, the
CITRIS-ALI uses 50 milligrams per kilogram, which is 2.5. And then there’s a number of case
reports in advanced lung injury, what we call mega-dosing, so 25 grams twice a day has, you
know, there’s a number of case reports where they saw profound responses in the, response to
lung injury of these high doses. So we I don’t think that we do it perfectly on our protocol, but
we do it pragmatically, which is, I got to tell you, the one thing that most hospitals won’t do, they
won’t let you give 25 grams twice a day.
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah, well, just hospitals will not administer it.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No, because there’s no precedent for it. They don’t know anything about it. You can’t say, “oh,
there’s a case report where it worked really well.” I mean, medicines broken that way they don’t –
even something as safe as IV vitamin C, they’ll think that you’re crazy if you want to give
someone 25 grams.
Dr. Mercola:
Unless, you know you’re you’ve somehow established your protocol and worked them up and
you have a relationship with them. But as a tangent to that. And a reflection of my being a Boy
Scout early on, never made Eagle but it got close. Would it make sense for people watching this
who are concerned about someone in their family or community that’s going to get sick and go to
the hospital, and it’s a local community hospital, so they won’t have the IV vitamin C, or maybe
they can call them and see if it’s there. But if it’s most likely not, just to ask their doctor to order
that for them. It’s a vial, it’s not very expensive, they could keep it in there and then bring it to the
hospital. And then they can at least administer it.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So I have been involved with a number of cases where hospitals, pharmacists formularies in the
hospital have been asked to get because remember, you can get any medicine in this country
generally within 24 hours. I mean, you can-
Dr. Mercola:
But it might be too late at 24 hours.
.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No, no, 24 hours is long, but for a hospital, you can borrow from a neighboring hospital, you can
get it shipped. I mean, there’s ways to get these medicines. It’s not the how to get the medicine,
it’s whether they would give it. So they would have to be under the care physician was willing to
prescribe it. And if a physician has no experience with it, but you know, they don’t do it, they
don’t do it, I’m telling you, they don’t do it.
Dr. Mercola:
That’s got to be so frustrating God, you know, you have something that’s going to be essentially
lifesaving, and they refuse to administer. And with virtually no side effects, no side effects,
Dr. Pierre Kory:
You should see the resistance I got when I was like, at one point, I was the director of the main
ICU at University of Wisconsin. And the data for me was so overwhelming, the early data, and I
just said, “Hey, guys, can’t we just start a protocol where we just give everybody on admission
IV vitamin C, like, what’s the downside?” Everyone starts talking about kidney stones and all of
this nonsense, and we had so much data to show that doesn’t happen in acute illness, or in IV
formulations. But it’s, it’s bizarre. It’s bizarre, like when you propose a new way of treating
someone to a doctor, this is what I’ve found. Every time I have what I would call a “bright idea.”
I’m faced with a doctor who is by definition smarter than I am, who knows more than I am. So
when I have a new idea, obviously, my idea has to be wrong, Joe, right. Now, because if it was
right, they would have thought of it first. And literally, I feel like I live in a cartoon in medicine,
because every time I discuss with someone, they just don’t believe anything works. Because if it
worked, they would be doing it. It’s bizarre. It’s bizarre.
Dr. Mercola:
It’s, I think, a testimony to the arrogance of many physicians, you know, they’re well-intentioned,
but they just are reluctant to accept that there’s other people who have insights that might be
helpful to them. And they’ve long since lost their journey of being a perpetual student.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
It’s 10% that I find that aren’t that way. Like, you can approach a doctor, you start having a
conversation like this, and they’re like, “Huh, that’s interesting,” or “I’m intrigued” or seems
reasonable, right? Those kinds of responses, unfortunately, it’s a very small minority. And so it’s
like you said, it’s, it’s this ingrained arrogance that physicians either are trained with, or it comes
with the territory, but it’s very damaging. I think it holds medicine back and it hurts patients.
Dr. Mercola:
Or kills people. That’s killing people. Literally. That is not hyperbole. So on a really important
topic, I mean, you’ve put together an outpatient protocol. And obviously, you’ve sifted through a
lot of the evidence. And I know, I just want you to share what that is. And I believe you’re going
to be sharing that you’re not claiming this is the ultimate – this is the gold standard. This is what
you’ve accumulated together based on the data and there may there likely is some better
interventions that could be added to this, but this is a start. Would that be fair?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No question. So first thing, I would appreciate that the way you brought up that question, Joe, is
that, because you’re helping me remind myself. So our protocol, number one, is always an
evolution. We’re not saying like, “This is the only way to treat it. This is how we decided to treat
it. This is how it will always be treated.” We reserve the right to deprioritize, change the dose,
substitute a new medicine, you know, we want to follow the data and the experience and the
knowledge of this disease. That’s number one. Number two, all of our protocols are combination
therapy protocols. And by the way that gives doctors fits. You know why? Because they want to
know, well, “How do you know that this is necessary? How do you know this and like, we know
that there’s trials of each individual component showing that they’re effective, we believe that
they’re synergistic. We’re never going to do a trial which tests every component on our protocols
with just practicing medicine and giving what we think is pragmatic, sound advice. So that
would be one statement. The second is, there’s a number of protocols, right? So the AAPS
(Association of American Physicians and Surgeons) has a protocol. You know, Tess Lawrie’s
World Council for Health, they have a number of options. And so there’s a lot of doctors who
might emphasize or de-emphasize that, you know, a medicine on our protocol. And so, we do not
pretend that this is the only way you know, skinning the cat. But we do put a lot of thought into
it. And most and you’ll also notice, another thing is that most of our medicines are repurposed,
right? So they’re not novel. They’re very well-known over decades, safety profiles are well
known, they tend to be generally low-cost and their mechanisms are well-known. And so I would
say, a central medicine to all of our protocols, prevention, early treatment, hospital and late phase
like long haul is ivermectin for many reasons, right. So we find that ivermectin is a potent anti-
viral. That’s been demonstrated for 10 years now in the lab and numbers of RNA viruses, they’ve
shown that it interrupts replication of like Zika, dengue, West Nile, even HIV it shown some
efficacy in the lab. And then the clinical studies are just overwhelming. Can I just take one
minute to say that if anyone wants to call ivermectin a controversial medicine, I just want to call
out it is absolutely not controversial. It is a medicine that is buried in corruption, and the
corruption is in the suppressing of its efficacy. There are unfortunately – this is what I had to
learn in medicine is that there are immense powers that do not want the efficacy of that drug to
be known. Because if it is known and becomes standard of care, it will obliterate the market for
any number of novel pharmaceutical products. And so it’s-
Dr. Mercola:
It would eliminate vaccines that the justification for emergency authorization would fail to exist.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So when you look at the actions taken against ivermectin, it can only be understood that it’s
threatening something big and powerful, because boy, has it been attacked, and it’s been
attacked. When it sits on like literally 64 controlled trials, almost every single one of them
showing benefit, many of them large benefits, and yet, the other side distorts it to make it seem
like it’s controversial and it’s absurd. And so, we know it works. We know it from in vitro, in
vivo animal studies, case series, one of the first case series in June of 2020. That came out in
Dominican Republic, 3,300 consecutive patients coming into the emergency room, they treated
ivermectin, 16 were hospitalized, one death, 3,300 patients. I mean, a profound result of acutely
ill COVID patients in the Dominican Republic. And those experiences have continued now, one
caveat is that we were playing catch up a little bit because ivermectin has a dose-response
relationship. And remember, Delta had 250 times the viral loads of Alpha. So we started seeing
breakthroughs on our prevention protocols. I’m one of them. I got COVID. While I was taking it
weekly, now we’re doing it twice weekly. Is it the right dose? We’re not sure-
Dr. Mercola:
Because there a number of videos that tried to disparage you as a result, they’ve tried to widely
circulated discredit you.

Dr. Pierre Kory:
I found that you know that people took a lot of glee in that, like, you know, you know, doctor
who recommends ivermectin gets COVID while on ivermectin. And I got to tell you, maybe I’m
just naive and too much of a physician, but I also found it curious that I got COVID because
nobody had for many, many, many months. And we had, I knew many hundreds of people
around the world who were taking a prophylactic, but when delta hit, that’s exactly when we
started to see breakthrough. So like, I knew it was Delta, I didn’t think it was a failure of
ivermectin. And so we’re seeing much less breakthroughs now on a higher dose. Is it the right
dose? I don’t know. Could it be higher? Maybe. But we know it works as prevention.
Dr. Mercola:
Did you change the entire dosing regimen based on the introduction or experience with Delta?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yes, because of the breakthroughs, we just empirically chose twice a week instead of once a
week.
Dr. Mercola:
And there is no test for Delta. I mean, it’s just a SARS-CoV-2 test right that the actual genetic
identification, but it does in like research lab.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So 100%, there’s no test for Delta. But when I say Delta, it’s when in the places where they did
do the genotype sequencing. Once the centers that were doing that were finding let like 60%,
70%, 80% of the samples were Delta, the rest of us assumed it was Delta because everywhere
they were sequencing, they were finding that the vast majority were Delta. And so again, it’s only
specialized centers that were doing that. So that’s where we look to, to find out what variant
we’re dealing with. Right, like so for instance, right now, if I take care of five COVIDs next
week, will I know if they have Omicron or not? I have no idea until some center tells me that
80% of what we’re seeing in the community is Omicron I won’t know. Right? But with Delta was
pretty clear. Most centers, most countries that were doing genotype sequencing, it was all Delta,
you know, the Delta was just such a high. You know, so that’s how we knew-
Dr. Mercola:
How many of these centers that do the genotype sequencing are there in the country? Is it
dozens, is this-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Zero idea. I know that in South Africa right now, from the reports that I read, it was a consortium
of seven universities that were doing the sequencing, I-
Dr. Mercola:
Mostly research centers. It was mostly research.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, you need specialized equipment and facilities and
expertise. So-
Dr. Mercola:
I interrupted you. So the ivermectin for sure higher dose now since Delta is out,
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So we, you know, and we use higher doses for treatment, you know, because it has a dose
response, the viral loads are higher, so we know we need higher, and the higher doses are
effective. And that’s another thing, right? With the trials, some of the trials are playing catch up.
They literally use like low doses in better variants. They’re using, like old doses in new variants.
And anyway, so ivermectin for it’s in early antiviral properties. We also use it later on, because it
also has a whole host of anti-inflammatory properties. And so it actually is effective in multiple
phases. Besides ivermectin, we also has that as an as an option, a drug called nitazoxanide. Now,
here’s the trick about nitazoxanide.
Dr. Mercola:
The tricky is saying it.

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[Part 2]

Dr. Pierre Kory:
Saying it is one challenge. The other challenge is that in the U.S., it’s not really an option. It’s
absurdly expensive. It’s very uncommon. Few places stock it like you won’t find it in your
Walgreens. It’s an anti-protozoan, anti-parasitic medicine, very common in other continents, but
not really in the U,S. And it also has a little bit of a Pharma Bro aspect to it. If you know what I
mean by Pharma Bro me it has like this oddly inflated price like it’s many, many hundreds of
dollars, even the generic, and the brand name is like $5,000 for a treatment course. Meanwhile,
in Brazil, it’s like $3.50 for a treatment course. So in the U.S., it’s not an option. But you know,
interestingly, Joe, our protocols are followed like in many countries and continents around the
world like in India, Ukraine and South America, a lot of people look – so nitazoxanide is an
option there. And from my colleague Flávio A. Cadegiani has done a number of trials in Brazil.
He’s about as most published clinically, and in trials in COVID as anyone. His data from Brazil
show that nitazoxanide and ivermectin are equally effective, equally effective as an early
antiviral agent. And nitazoxanide is also known as an antiviral. In fact, it’s standard of care for
rotavirus in Brazil. So it’s already an established antiviral medicine. And so what he says is that
they’re equally effective, and the combination are actually better than each one alone. So like if
Brazil for someone sick, they’ll use the combination. So those are the antiviral components, then
we have medicines that have either antiviral or anti-inflammatory or a combination so like,
melatonin, right? Zinc. Quercetin. And then obviously, for anticoagulants and we have aspirin,
Vitamin D is critical, right? So we really want people to have normal vitamin D levels going
into-
Dr. Mercola:
That’s the ideal. You’re trying to bring them up geraniol this everyone watching this? That’s the
take home message, check your vitamin D levels. If it’s low, then go supplement now. Not when
you get sick.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Joe, can I ask you a question? Why isn’t our federal government from the get go? Why didn’t
they tell every doctor in the land to make sure that the patients in their practice have adequate
vitamin D levels?
Dr. Mercola:
Well, you know the answer. That was the same reason they discredited and disparage ivermectin.
The same reason. It’s a threat. I mean, it would literally have reduced, from my understanding of
the literature, 70%, 80%, maybe even higher than 80%, of the morbidity and mortality from the
disease if everyone had a vitamin D level over 40 nanograms per mL.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No question, in fact that just this week, there was a study that came out huge database of patients
where they looked at patients who their vitamin D levels before they got ill and during illness.
And what they found was — they estimated they did the fancy statistical modeling logistic
regression — they found that at 50 nanograms per milliliter, zero mortality. Anyone, if you go
into this illness with a level of 50, they observed no deaths occur. And so, you know, and I asked
you that question, obviously, I was being sort of sarcastic or facetious. I do know the answer. But
I do have to point out the criminality of it because the federal government knows. They know the
population knows that they know that vitamin D deficiency, especially in low-income minorities
in the north of the country is ubiquitous, in nursing homes, right? What is vitamin D deficiency
in nursing homes, they don’t go out in the sun all the time. They don’t have great diets. And so
the idea that we didn’t have a vitamin D protocol nationally is —
Dr. Mercola:
It’s criminal.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Literally, it’s criminal. Criminal. So vitamin D is on our protocol
Dr. Mercola:
It’s the only paper I’ve written this century, was a review of that evidence, published it last year
in Nutrients. It’s actually the most downloaded paper, the second most downloaded paper ever in
the journal.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So it’s a big topic and I’m glad we actually I knew you were an expert and that you did that you’d
written on it. And so I mean, that’s a topic I’m sure near and dear to your heart as a physician and
so simple.
Dr. Mercola:
So simple, so basic, and you don’t even have to take a supplement if you live in Florida, you
know, you I mean, I haven’t swallowed vitamin D in over a decade. And I have levels over 50
so-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Right. Right, right. So you know, and so the problem Joe is now let’s talk about what it’s like
when you get sick. So like, for those who are low, once you get sick, obviously, it’s going to be
consumed a little bit and/or if you go into it low, how do you supplement? Because vitamin D3
in an acute illness? I’ve got to tell you, I am underwhelmed with its clinical impact.
Dr. Mercola:
Totally agree. I’m not impressed with the data either. It’s not an intervention when you’re sick,
right? Absolutely. Horses out of the barn.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So what we did, the positive studies that we’ve seen, although I’ll mention a study that just came
out this week, maybe I can share that with you because I just – Paul sent it to me the other day,
but the positive treatment studies actually use either calcifediol or calcitriol. So we have another
but that’s prescription only not all the doctors are familiar with it. And so, you know, I, you
know, if I were sick, I would want to take calcitriol if I had a low level or if I knew that my level
was not, but—
Dr. Mercola:
What is that in your protocol?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So yeah, we have – calcitriol is 0.25 micrograms. My colleague, Cadegiani in Brazil, he uses 0.5
micrograms of calcium.
Dr. Mercola:
As a dose IV? Micrograms per kilogram, or that’s the-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Just micrograms, and it’s daily. That’s the dose for calcitriol. And so-
Dr. Mercola:
That’s parenteral, right? IM (intramuscular)?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No, it’s actually oral.
Dr. Mercola:
It’s oral?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Calcitriol was oral, I believe. Yes,
Dr. Mercola:
I thought it was parenteral.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah, I mean, the dialysis patients take it, you know, to supplement their vitamin E. So, anyway,
we do try to have the more active forms of vitamin D in our protocol. We just saw a study which
showed-
Dr. Mercola:
Let me just go back there. But calcitriol is the hydroxylated form. It’s actually what is – yeah, it’s
what’s measured, or is that no, is it? What is it?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So calcitriol is, so if you do D3, to OH which is calcifediol and then calcitriol is the – so
calcifediol is the immediate precursor to the active vitamin D calcitriol, is the active vitamin D.
So we favor either of those to the vitamin D3, in order for it to [inaudible 01:02:51] in the active
form, it’s going to take too long, plus your conversion, metabolic pathways are diminished in
illness, as well. And so I-
Dr. Mercola:
You might even have SNPs (single-nucleotide polymorphism) that diminish it too.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah, yeah. So. So yeah. So like you said, I mean, I think our point is, is exactly what it is,
which is that is-
Dr. Mercola:
That is a very good distinction. And it is somehow escaped me that that the activated
metabolites, which are available pharmacologically, if you’re sick, that’s probably the way to go.
If you’re-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
In the hospital, I give them calcitriol for sure. The active form, you know, it’s immediately active
doesn’t even metabolize. And so it’s, you know, it’s working right there. We just saw a paper this
week, which looked at a bunch of their protocol was it actually showed a mortality benefit. And I
believe it was in hospital patients, and they used 100,000 units of D3, day one, and then 10,000
each subsequent day, and they showed an impact.
Dr. Mercola:
That would make sense.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
That’s a very high dose. And so I think if-
Dr. Mercola:
But it’s not dangerous, if they’re low, assuming they measure their blood level, first.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
I have to read back on the paper, but so I just bring that up to say that there was one protocol that
did use, you know, oral D3, and had an impact, but those were very high doses.
Dr. Mercola:
So even if you’re using calcitriol, it’s probably good to put them on orals, too, because eventually
you want that to be the source and you do not want to be giving calcitriol every day.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Right. And once you stop the calcitriol, right, you don’t want to leave deficient. So anyway, those
are the other elements on our protocol. And then we added in the last few months, we added
what we call sort of a nutritional therapeutics because you know, there’s those nice trials that
show black cumin seed, which I was fascinated by that compound and then [inaudible 1:04:44]
obviously, widely used throughout the world, especially not in the U.S. But it had all these
pleiotropic effects, you know, immunomodulatory, meaning it helped the immune system while
being anti-inflammatory. It also had antiviral properties and so it was almost like, “Wow, that
sounds really good.” And the trial in Pakistan, where they combined it with honey, who knew
honey, like Paul and I were really maybe you know more about honey than, than we do. But we
were really impressed with really the literature and the science behind honey, they they’ve been
studying that in a number of sort of disease models and even viral models.
Dr. Mercola:
And so just to be clear, this is raw, unprocessed. It’s not the honey you buy in most commercial
grocery stores.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
And you think that because most people don’t have raw unprocessed honey.
Dr. Mercola:
But you can easily get it at almost any health food store. It’s so easy to get online. Even Amazon
has it so. But yeah, the regular honey, purified refined honey, it’s just like table sugar. It’s not
gonna do it.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
You don’t think it’s going to do – it’s not going to have enough of the central compounds?
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah, there is magic in honey, there’s no question. It’s a health food.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Now I’m now a little embarrassed because I don’t know that we’ve specified that on our protocol.
So I think maybe you brought-
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah, just get like Manuka honey is really good. I don’t know if that was the one they use in the
studies that you quoted.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
I have – that’s what you want me to do now is I need to look back to see what I have to look back
to see if they specified that it was, you know, raw, natural honey. My guess is that you’re
probably correct. That’s what they use. So I have to look back.

Dr. Mercola:
Yeah. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah. And then but here’s the other important thing. So those are like, a kind of our mainstay.
Now here’s, here’s, here’s the magic or the art of medicine, right? So if I have a 30-year-old,
who’s day one, you know, just had his fever last night. Let’s say he got tested today, or, you
know, his brother or his mom had COVID this week. So you know, it’s COVID, flat out 100%.
And it’s day one, he’s young and healthy. You know, ivermectin alone probably will get them
better within a couple of days. And, you know, end of story, no problem. The challenge is, and I
find this odd that we’re this far in the pandemic, I’m still meeting patients who fall ill and think
it’s a cold. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but like, I have seen rather smart people be like, “Oh, I
just like you know, one of my colds,” and then suddenly they get a little bit sick, a little bit sick,
and they find it’s actually COVID. And so sometimes I’m meeting patients who are day three,
four, five into disease, they haven’t really gotten adequate treatment. And there, I have to use
more of the protocol elements, right? And so we have that first line, which I said, you know, it’s
like ivermectin with a nutritional, you know – quercetin, melatonin, zinc, vitamin D, aspirin.
Then we have second line and for me, so there’s an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors)
called fluvoxamine, which has actually been shown to be very helpful.
Dr. Mercola:
Through Steve Kirsch’s research, right?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Oh, yes, Steve was an early proponent of it, because he, you know, he was he started an
organization called the Early Treatment Fund. And as soon as he was aware of the early efficacy
around fluvoxamine, he helps fund some of the studies and he helped highlight it. So he’s been a
real champion for a lot of important things in the pandemic. So fluvoxamine is kind of his baby
and, and you know, what, the studies continue to pan out. And so, and even clinically, some of
my colleagues who incorporated the protocol with ivermectin and fluvoxamine, they found that
they saw much less treatment failures. I mean, I’ve ranked as highly effective, but it doesn’t cure
everybody, right? They saw, you know, an occasional treatment fail and they said it really
disappeared once they use the combo. So for some, the second line that you would add, for
someone older or more advanced disease, you know, more comorbidities, obese, diabetes, like I
tend to throw the kitchen sink at those folks. I try to use as many elements in the protocol. So
they’re all at either fluvoxamine or the, for me, the game changer now is anti-androgens. So if
you’ve seen our protocol, we use spironolactone, which is a diuretic, right, a potassium-sparing
diuretic, but it has, at doses above 100 milligrams a day, it has potent anti-androgen properties,
as well as dutasteride, right, which is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, which also suppresses
testosterone. And the reason why is that the androgens seem to be a huge potentiator of this
illness, not only in terms of driving viral replication, but also in potentiating inflammation. And
so if you can suppress the engine, this applies to men and women. Probably bigger impacts in
men, of course.
Dr. Mercola:
Endogenously higher levels, of course.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Obviously, exactly. But, but it’s not to say that it’s not helpful in women, right? Women also have
androgens and so the trials on that are really, really potent, the ones coming out of Brazil,
observational, randomized and so we have an anti-androgen aspect. So I’ve been using that in
outpatients. Some of my sick or older or more advanced disease patients, I’ll add that on pretty
quick. And so I’ve had some patients on ivermectin, fluvoxamine, dutasteride, spironolactone as
like, the sort of mainstay of the antiviral, anti-inflammatory and just so for your audience if
they’re geeky, and they want to know, there’s an endo-enzyme called TMPRSS2. And that’s the
enzyme that essentially cleaves the spike protein and allows it to bind to the cell and enter. And
so if you block that enzyme, you basically prevent viral entry and replication. And it’s the reason
why men do worse with COVID. Men between the ages of 40 to 50 are six times as likely as
women to die between the ages of 30 and 50. They’re twice as likely to go to the hospital. And in
the spring of 2021, one of the first reports that thought that there might be an androgen
correction, it came out of Spain, but this group in an ICU they noticed one day, as they were
examining their patient, they noticed that the vast majority of everybody on a ventilator in their
ICU was bald, right? So alopecia, right? Baldness is a marker for the more higher levels of the
more potent form of testosterone, right. And so that, you know, we’ve seen the gender disparity
of COVID for a long time, and so attacking that aspect of-
Dr. Mercola:
Because of the androgen itself or the androgen’s effect on the-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Exactly. It’s the latter. So TMPRSS2 is almost totally regulated by androgens. You suppress the
androgen, you suppress the activity of TMPRSS2, which suppresses the ability of the virus to
actually enter the cell. And so literally, it’s an androgen-regulated enzyme. And so that’s a really
important pathway. And what’s nice is spironolactone. Super cheap use for decades. Even
women use it for parasitism or alopecia, it’s used in a lot of places. And so you can use these
things in outpatients in women and men.
Dr. Mercola:
Perfect. So do you integrate vitamin C, ascorbic acid, into the protocol?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
We do. So we don’t have very high dose we use oral said is in our protocol. I don’t think it has a
as big a benefit as I would like. And I think it’s from what I’m understanding is that the way in
which it works as an outpatient is maybe not due to the direct actions of vitamin C, it may not be
due to those the concentrations of vitamin C that you’re reaching, because remember oral vitamin
C has limitations and how much you can absorb. It has rather modest concentrations you can
reach but we have a colleague in our circle who is an expert at the microbiome, and what she has
found is that one of the bacteria, which is most protective, and most predictive of a good
prognosis in several diseases, as well as COVID is Bifidobacterium. I don’t know if you’re aware
of it. But oral vitamin C may be working by increasing the population of Bifidobacterium. And
so it might have like a non-concentration-dependent effect like that it works through the
microbiome, apparently, it’s a big potentiator of that protective bacteria in the microbiome. So
well, I find that fascinating.

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[Part 3]

Dr. Mercola:
Yeah, it is. And now, there is a differentiation there because you can use – there’s different types
of vitamin C, the conventional type, which is almost all the oral supplements, and then there’s a
liposomal. Liposomal you can use pretty high doses and concentrations because you reach after
about 20 grams per day, almost everyone has loose stools. And for many people, it’s half that
dose, or even 5 grams a day. So you can get to pretty high doses with using liposomals. And
reach doses that are almost very comparable to intravenous.
Dr. Pierre Kory 1:13:54
And hold on, you’re saying doses do you mean concentrations in the blood? Because I wish you
could share some papers with that. Because when I looked into liposomal, I was like
underwhelmed with the actual blood concentrations reached. I didn’t think they were
approximately IV-like.
Dr. Mercola 1:14:13
Well you have to take more, you have to take more of them.
Dr. Pierre Kory 1:14:15
I mean, probably frequently, like every four hours or something or, or every-
Dr. Mercola 1:14:19
Every hour even, you know, you could take a bottle a day, you know, and it’s still less than
probably one in intravenous. Oh, of course. So yeah, but I mean, it’s not something you would
recommend routinely. And you mentioned the issue some physicians have with kidney stones
and that is there and then part of the reason is one of the metabolic byproducts of ascorbic acid is
oxalate. And if you have a lot of oxalate endogenously or you have high calcium levels, calcium
oxalate stones are real and it can increase it but for normal doses, it’s not an issue. It has to be
over a gram a day.
Dr. Pierre Kory 1:14:52
And also for short term, Joe, right. So like, right, we’re not going to get oxalate or people who
like take vitamin C like chronically at high end doses for long duration. Like if you’re acutely ill,
and you start taking these high doses for five, 10 days, I don’t think you’re going to run into
oxalate problems. I don’t know. But I don’t think that that’s been described really for short term.
Is that correct?
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah, yeah. So one of the ways that vitamin C works, least speculated, is that it breaks down to
hydrogen peroxide and hydrogen peroxide probably has some signaling capacity, but also may
be directly toxic to the viral pathogens. So that’s the least speculated mechanism that I’m aware
of. So that’s why I integrate nebulized peroxide, and I understand I’m sure you’ve heard of it but
obviously, there’s no well published trials, anecdotal trials that are published, but nothing, you
know, like the standard of care would require.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Exactly. And so yeah, that’s, that’s why we struggle with some of that stuff. So sorry, that’s our
outpatient protocol has those kind of, you know, first, second line, third line, the androgens, I
find itself and then obviously, in like, almost like your friend’s case, you know, if someone really
hasn’t responded, or they’ve gotten too late, their day seven or eight, they’re getting sick, or as
soon as the pulmonary phase develops. So as soon as like someone’s getting appreciable
shortness of breath, and I’ve ruled out a pulmonary embolus, or they have an abnormal X ray or
they require oxygen, corticosteroids must be started them. I know some doctors who started a
little earlier like day five, whether or not you’re on oxygen or having a lung problem. And I think
that’s probably okay, as long as it’s paired with like ivermectin, nitazoxanide or even
hydroxychloroquine. Again, hydroxychloroquine is another drug that got buried in corruption.
You know, it was a drug that worked. And there was a massive systematic attack on it with
essentially fraudulent trials, papers published. I mean, that’s a whole other saga that, you know,
and that’s what that was the repurposed drug in 2020 that got attacked. Ivermectin is the
repurposed drug in 2021. And so, you know, Joe, the one thing I want to say I try to say,
wherever I am, is that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are just the latest in a long line of
repurposed drugs that gets attacked by the pharmaceutical industry, you know, repurposed drugs
– cheap, available, off-patent solutions to disease are anathema-
Dr. Mercola:
Because they are a threat, they’re a threat to the bottom line.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
They get attacked and discredited. And if you if you bide by – if you are an advocate for cheap,
safe, you know, decades-old solution to a disease, you get discredited as a fringe quack or
whatever. And it’s-
Dr. Mercola:
I don’t recall it that you mentioned zinc, I mean, in the protocol.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
I did.
Dr. Mercola:
You did? Okay. So the zinc – is there attention to – paying attention to the timing of the zinc? Is
it taken with quercetin or with the ivermectin, or hydroxychloroquine? I don’t know that
ivermectin works with zinc-
Dr. Pierre Kory:
We don’t, we don’t have hydroxychloroquine on our protocol, although we probably should as an
option, although that’s as restricted now as ivermectin, right. That’s a whole, other issue. I mean,
they’re, you know, but, but no, we don’t have we don’t have a timing with the ivermectin or with
the quercetin.
Dr. Mercola:
The mechanism is, seems to drive the zinc into the cells is how it works with
hydroxychloroquine.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
And hydroxychloroquine, yes. But we don’t have hydroxychloroquine on our protocol. So
although we we’d sort of in our in the supporting. So there’s a document what we call the Bible in
the FLCCC. And that’s Paul. So Paul is the author of the Bible. And so if you look at our
website, and you go to like Protocols, under Protocols, you’ll see, I think we call it “The
Complete Guide to the Care of the COVID Patient.” That’s really Paul’s baby. I mean, Paul
started that, like from before the first patient he ever saw with COVID. And he just started to put
together the data and his understanding and papers. And Paul is like the most well-read guy on
COVID that I think you can imagine, he really literally reads dozens of papers a day. I mean,
maybe not dozens, but at least a dozen. And so he has really formulated and he’s focused very
much on therapeutics. And so in that Bible, we have a number of therapeutic options that are not
in our protocols, right? Because you can’t put 35 things on your protocol, but there are options to
consider. And so in the Bible, we have hydroxychloroquine, but we don’t have it upfront in the
protocol.
Dr. Mercola:
Okay. Yeah, we seem to be if you’re going to use it with the quercetin and it might be better if it
was taken with the zinc at the same time. Yeah, because you’re going to have higher zinc levels,
and that’s how it works. So that’s the ticket concurrently. So it’s great that you put this compile
this and you and your group, but I’m wondering what your recommendations are to identify a
clinician who can prescribe these, because many of the therapies that you’re mentioning are
prescription drugs. So obviously, you can’t go out to the store and buy them without a
prescription. So how do how does someone identify a clinician they can work with and connect
and have these prescribed for them?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So we don’t have the perfect answer that but we have a reasonable answer. So we – many
physicians have reached out to us thanked us for their protocols said that they use our protocols,
many of them have telehealth. And so we try to keep a list of those that treat early. And again,
they might not follow ours religiously. But like we talked about earlier, there’s many different
ways of treating this disease early, there’s a number of different compounds. But then there’s also
a website that we borrow, which has like a directory of telehealth providers for COVID. And
they all have early treatment protocols. And they’re in every state. And so and some of them, you
know, are practices that span the country. Now, during big surges, many of them were just so
overwhelmed with requests for treatment that I think some patients were ill-served. And you
know, this is where the stuff gets real said Joe, right, talking about, you know, COVID in this
country, right, is that the problem is I don’t think that I can get anyone, everyone to a doctor that
needs it or wants it, right? Like you said, it’s hard. But if you go to our website, there, we have a
quick link, and you can find a physician and there’s directories in each state, some are multi-
state, and you can try them. And I think a number of them are growing and maturing. And so for,
let’s say, we have a bad surge this winter. My hopes are that these telehealth providers can meet
the demand.
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah. Oh, thanks. That’s a good, helpful resource. But you know, you mentioned it’s sad, and
yes, it’s sad indeed that anyone should not have access to these successful interventions. But
what’s even sadder in my perspective is the fact that they’re giving this jab to 5-to-11-year-olds,
they’re killing kids. They’re killing kids. And I don’t know, you probably have never seen a child
with this illness because it’s such a rare disease.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
No.
Dr. Mercola:
Ever seen a child with COVID?
Dr. Pierre Kory
No. A healthy child from 5 to 11. No. [crosstalk 01:22:27]
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah. So but they’re given the jab and they’re going to be seeing the consequences of this
intervention soon.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So you know, I told you, before we came on that I’m right now in Indianapolis, because I’m
speaking at a conference, it’s a global COVID summit. It’s an outgrowth of that physician’s
declaration. That original declaration, which you sign, right, which is really just, you know,
trying to reclaim the autonomy and expertise of the physician to, you know, to try to avoid
restriction allow us to do what we do. We also, since then, stipulated three other principles,
which we have well over 10,000 physicians across the globe that sign on, and those principles
are, number one, like I just said, early treatment, and the autonomy of the physician should not
be restricted. Number two, natural immunity must be recognized as actually equal or superior to
vaccination. The idea that we’re vaccinating those naturally immune. And then the third
absurdity, which is healthy children should not receive these vaccines. There’s just no rationale.
The data does not support it, you’re not protecting the child. In fact, we know the side effects in
youth. And you know, you, Joe, how many countries now have actually outlawed one or multiple
of these vaccines in young people, some countries in anyone under 30? Right. So the
Scandinavian countries, they’re not going to vaccinate the children because of the toxicity. And
yet, now we have states in this country which are mandating it for healthy children. Again,
healthy children. It’s impossible to find almost impossible to find a death of a healthy child from
COVID.
Dr. Mercola:
I think RFK (Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) when he perused the literature, he said there’s never been a
reported death of COVID in a child who was healthy. [crosstalk 01:24:27] it really is coexisting
comorbidities.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
I agree with him, because in the, in the large database studies that I’ve seen published, so I think
Makary, Marty Makary of MedPage. He did 42,000 child database, they didn’t find one. And in
some of the population studies that came out of other countries, there’s one recently in Germany,
they didn’t find one like they could not find a case of a death in a healthy child.
Dr. Mercola:
And yet, we’ve got Pfizer making these commercials and brainwashing kids into believing they
were superheroes if they get this damn jab.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
I used to, not that I don’t get upset anymore, but I used to like literally start losing my temper, not
foaming, but I just went when I think of the non-scientific policies that we have been subjected.
And, you know, it’s one thing to start a policy in this pandemic, because you think it makes sense
or has good rationale. But the problem is we’re not revisiting them. We’re not reassessing the
data and saying, “You know what, maybe we should do it differently based on this data,” it’s
like, we’re sticking to those first in things. And then the nonscientific objections they’re doubling
down on. So they want to vaccinate kids, even though the data is just increasing. So vaccinate
kids in the naturally immune, we have just buried in data showing neither of those categories of
our citizens need a vaccine, and yet they’re doing it and you you’re aware of the studies showing
that the risk of hospitalization from the vaccine is higher than from the disease? How can you
support that?
Dr. Mercola:
You can’t, I mean, if you’re rational, I guess you can support if you are really motivated to
increase the drug company profits, and then it makes it then makes perfect sense. It’s totally
justifiable.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
You know, the one thing that they do you know, that puts an out which I’ll entertain, I’ll listen to
any rationale. So one is that, they want to argue that if you vaccinate the kids, you’ll decrease
transmission, and it’s more of a population-based benefit. The problem is the data for that isn’t
there either. So although yes, kids can transmit it to parents, that’s not a predominant mode of
spread, that kids don’t have high viral loads for a number of reasons. They don’t have as many
H2 receptors, they have generally much milder disease. And so they’re not a huge vector to not
only in between themselves, but to parents. And so why you would go after them the lowest, or
their teachers. And so, again, it goes back to so many different things. It’s not just about the
vaccines or the kids, it’s that I find that there’s non-scientific objectives. So the prohibitions
around hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, those are not scientific objectives. That is some
other objective. And you can only argue that they’re financial.
Dr. Mercola:
Yeah. All right. Well, I couldn’t agree more. I really, deeply appreciate your insights and time
that you share with us and helping people understand some of the practical resources out there to
address this illness they come in contact with it, or someone they love does. Because it’s an
unfortunate reality that we’re all confronted with nowadays. So I hope your path and journey to
better employment is successful. And I’m sure you’re wanted somewhere where you can really
you got a load of good solid information and a good head on your shoulder. So I’m trying to help
someone out.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
So I appreciate I might work for myself. So we’ll see. Yeah.
Dr. Mercola:
Alright, so if anyone I mean, obviously, maybe vaguely just give us the FLCC. Three C’s?
Dr. Pierre Kory:
It’s three C’s. So Paul Merrick oftentimes misses the third C, and I yell at him, mercilessly, but
it’s, the best way to get to us is FLCCC.net. So that’s the short form of our website. FLCCC.net.
Again, we have lots of information on there. We have links to different papers that have come
out. And then obviously, our protocols are there. And so—
Dr. Mercola 1:28:45
and then FL isn’t short for Florida, it’s short for frontline,
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance. So that’s, that’s us.
Dr. Mercola:
Okay. All right. Well, thanks for everything you’re doing. And I’ll be I’ll be in touch with you on
some separate issues on vitamin C. And then the other event that we talked about.
Dr. Pierre Kory:
Yeah, absolutely. It’s a pleasure talking to Joe. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Mercola:
Well, thanks a lot.

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