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Naked vaccine propaganda, or are they that deluded?

Exposure to misinformation could see people making a U-turn on taking a COVID-19 vaccine

This could be a bit of a classic. People exposed to ‘misinformation’ became more doubtful about the Covid vaccine than people ‘shown’ what the researchers call ‘factual’ information.

It’s interesting that they even use different verbs! People are ‘given’ what the authors allege to be ‘factual’ information but they are ‘exposed’ to nasty ‘misinformation’, like negative comments are themselves a contagious disease. With this pre-existing mindset, would you expect balance?

The interpretation depends entirely on the value judgements ‘factual’ and ‘misinformation’. Like me you’ll probably dive in to see what is ‘misinformation’ and what is ‘factual’.

It’s a bit fiddly to read. But well, ‘factual’ includes statements like ‘A safe and effective vaccine is the way out of this devastating pandemic’.

Notably, missing from the experiment is factual information that questions the safety and efficacy of a Sars2 vaccine. Like…the rush, the vested interests, the fact there has not been a successful coronavirus before. Risks from vaccines, the effect on immune systems.

And what about all those people who have read about the protective value of higher levels of vitamin D, and the likely benefits of supplementation? Not to mention all those people who think the pandemic might not be so devastating if they would treat the vulnerable patients early with HCQ+Zinc, high dose Vitamin C, or might not have been a pandemic at all; or that outside the countries in the study (US, UK) and a few others with the similar pharmocracies (France, Spain, Italy) where most of the deaths are coming from it might indeed have been like the flu?
If they had given factual information on these matters what difference might have been made? :smiling_imp:

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There’s a remarkable separation going on amongst the rank-and-file citizens right now, into mutually-distrusting cliques, simply unable to speak reasonably to each other about a whole lot of crucial matters. Cuts across families, and old, long-established friendships. The sheep and goats categorisation that I favour captures something of it: radically different responses to exactly the same subjects. What it seems to come down to is the forced sorting of individual psychologies into those who seem to need to believe people presented as authority figures, and those who question and stay naturally sceptical about anything - whoever says it.

I had a remarkably sharp example of it yesterday, in conversation with an old friend. One of those incidents which you may have seen commentators describe quite a bit lately, where you can’t establish any agreed set of - fairly likely - facts, and you end up just agreeing to differ; or you fall into a hectic shouting match, just throwing assertions at each other.

The astonishing thing for me was the way my friend was regurgitating recent talking-point bollocks pushed out by the propaganda machine, and - as people have pointed out with some surprise in other anecdotes like this - the propaganda victims don’'t seem to notice that they didn’t work this out for themselves, and they are in fact repeating talking points which have been inserted into their minds by the machine; literally word for word, as in this case yesterday.

I had noticed for a week or two that my friend seemed to be getting unusually obsessed with the idea that the upcoming US POTUS ‘election’ just must, absolutely had to, work out with the removal of Trump. Apparently because, in her captured imagination, he was the ultimate awful being, from whom we simply MUST be saved! (She’s an avid follower of BBC ‘news’…)

In the course of our conversation, I mentioned that this election seems - from lots of signs, clearly visible - to be particularly ripe with obvious vote-swindling rackets. P immediately came out with the exact phrases that I’d been hearing from the BBC (the 3-minute bulletinettes on R3, which is all of the beeb’s ‘news’ output that I can stand, and even then I’m constantly rewording their headlines as I listen, to try to make them objectively honest). “Trump said so, but it was unsubstantiated”, she said; and “he presented no evidence”. Both factually false statements, and both exactly as the beeb mediawhores - and the rest - had worded them. And apparently the hopeless superannuated crook Biden was an excellent and decorous replacement. Biden…! (This is a civilised, humane, fairly radically-inclined woman, but… well, shall we just say she’s had a rather sheltered, haut-bourgeoisie life… :slight_smile: )

And of course, when you point out to the troobleevers that they’re regurging current lamestream talking points verbatim, they get annoyed, and the whole thing quickly becomes shouty.

P, it turns out, is also persuaded that ‘Putin’ - meaning Russians - was behind the recent Navalny incident, and he - Navalny - is ‘the opposition’, with his paltry 2% opinion-poll backing. As you might expect, P has no idea about how Russian politics works these days, knowing only the Western lamestream discourse about it. And yes, ‘Putin’ was behind the Skripal scam too, and no, it wasn’t a scam but a genuine, deeply-irresponsible releasing of the universe-killing Russian horror ‘novichok’ on British streets. And ‘Putin’ has just made himself president for life too, the tyrant (this being - in reality - the constitutional change that Russia has just made, by an apparently spotlessly-clean referendum, voted in by about two thirds of the Russian electorate…) Note added 9.37 PM, 12 NOV 20: This alteration gave Putin the right to stand again for President. It didn’t make him ‘pres-for-life’. Election by his compatriots remains the requirement.

We discussed authoritative information sources. And this, it seems, is where the separation into mutually isolated factions happens. P simply can’t handle the idea that there are - literally - zero informants who should be trusted 100%. Absolutely all should be held in some scepticism, habitually, across the entire lamestream, but also across the whole of the internet as well. Bald assertions don’t cut it; established evidence is what swings the truth.

No, no! Some sources you can trust! Me saying that beeb ‘news’ or the Fraudian are thoroughly untrustworthy perception-manipulation operations brings on immediate cognitive dissonance in such vulnerable spirits, and causes them to become instantly agitated.

In the end, we had to agree to stop talking about it, as the situation teetered on the edge of an outright row. People’s sense of who they really are, and what is really solid, established truth, seems to have become somewhat fragile lately. Malign effects of TDS…

The same gulf seems to be in place between those who see the current gaderene rush for an inadequately-tested, and therefore inherently unsafe ‘anti-covid vaccine’ as an obvious criminally-irresponsible money-grubbing racket, with more autocratic power-grabbing lurking just behind it, and those Terror-Derangement Syndrome victims who simply can’'t wait to get it, on pure, terror-driven trust. It will be good when these Interesting Times have burned themselves out, and we can get back to having normal psychological responses to the world again, and actually talking about things constructively.

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Great points, RG. We are indeed in a world now where it seems almost impossible to have discussions around certain hot-button topics without being roundly denounced and condemned - from all sides! Better to keep one’s head down… Covid, vaccines, Trump are all hot button topics. As is almost anything to do with transgender rights. And pronouns… forget it!

I started wondering a few years ago why it might be that society can be so polarised. So equally divided. Take the Brexit referendum - 51.9% to 48.1%, or the recent US shenanigans (Biden 51.7% to 48.3%). I wonder what political forces are at work to so neatly divide us into such equal but opposite groups. And I wonder whose agenda is furthered by such divisions…

I briefly started working out a mathematical model to see if I could explain it, but gave up half way. Perhaps I’ll have another look.

Anyway. It seems clear that going forward, we are going to have to find ways to communicate across the divide. Especially if, as I believe, the divide is essentially a fabricated one using the media as a way to manufacture equal but opposite narratives.

Cheers

Hmm… here’s one for your scrapbook. I wonder if this counts as propaganda too…

And while we’re on the subject…

roll up, roll up. Gitchore covid-19 forever solution here!

“Hmm… here’s one for your scrapbook. I wonder if this counts as propaganda too…”

Ask Dr Fauci:

““The cavalry is coming,” Dr. Anthony Fauci said Thursday on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” He said he hopes shots will be available to all Americans in April, May and June.”

The cavalry. Is that French for Randomised Control Trial?

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Yes this is a terrific post RG!

Talking of propaganda. Two Guardian links on the same page.

  1. Hydroxychloroquine: how an unproven drug became Trump’s ‘miracle cure’, and
  2. Scientist behind BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine says it can end pandemic

The Pfizer vaccine mass media fawn-in is based on one press release! No numbers or details.
Hydroxychloroquine for early treatment of Covid has 21 positive trials, out of 21 (see https://c19study.com/). So much for that byline:

“Didier Raoult stands accused of touting drug as a coronavirus treatment without evidence”

Naturally, none of the dawn vaccine chorus stands accused. To borrow a quote from Raoult,

“Deux poids deux mesures”. Double standards.

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Vaccine propaganda in mainstream news - part 2513

The news item was that the Oxford trial has completed one of the trial stages. Unlike the outcomes of the two US vaccine trials the past week or so, both of which claimed efficiency of 90+%, the efficiency claimed for the trial Oxford was 70%.
I just heard this on the radio but will revert to this BBC online piece as it’s written.

"Overall, there were 30 cases of Covid in people who had two doses of the vaccine and 101 cases in people who received a dummy injection. The researchers said it worked out at 70% protection, which is better than the seasonal flu jab.

Nobody getting the actual vaccine developed severe - Covid or needed hospital treatment.

However, protection was 90% in an analysis of around 3,000 people on the trial who were given a half-sized first dose and a full-sized second dose. "

In the radio item the presenter added “but it can go up to 90%?” (as in the last statement above), to which the guest - Richard Horton, the Lancet editor no less) said ‘that’s right’.

But that’s not right. It is not enough to observe a subgroup of treatment parameters that had a better result. You have to correct for multiple testing because in choosing from several options you are helping the p-value (which is used to determine whether your outcome has statistical significance or not) get under the threshold. If you do this you are setting yourself up for harnessing the effects of what are merely chance variations.

More concisely:

" When you perform a large number of statistical tests, some will have P values less than 0.05 purely by chance, even if all your null hypotheses are really true."

Obviously, if you have 4 options then it is much more likely that one will get under the threshold purely by chance than if you have just one. As the link shows, there are various ways of adjusting. A simple way is to divide the threshold (normally 0.05) by the number of tests. So if there were four combinations (eg full/full, full/half, half/full and half/half) the threshold would be raised to 0.05/4, ie 0.0125.

The editor of the Lancet would know this, of course. He then went on to explain why it made sense for those who were given a half-sized first dose and a full-sized second dose to have had better results. Of course such a case could easily be made had it been the other way around - ie a case for the second dose1 to be smaller, like a top-up. This is known as ‘explaining away’ favoured findings.

One doesn’t have to spin to keep up with the US vaccines. The Oxford vaccine has a huge advantage over them - it’s much cheaper.

BBC article has a table of the ‘leading’ vaccine contenders:

Note this 90% is included as an upper range. Nonsensical

Or…is it? I wonder if the 90%+ claims for the other vaccines shown were also based on cherry-picked subgroups?
Hm…one very good reason why the data have to be available at least by the time of the main trumpeting ceremony. Might save a lot on bunting :slight_smile:

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Well, this article does nothing if not inspire rock-solid confidence…