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Interacting with machines

A two-part post, but they’re sort-of linked.

I expect many readers will be familar with the Turing Test which in contemporary life has resulted in regular experiments where researchers try to trap chatbots into betraying that they are not human.

Even crude machines that make no claims to being human-like will freak out and malfunction with boring regularity, pleading “there is a surprising item in the baggage area” and so on.

At the moment the OpenAI ChatGPT has been attracting quite a lot of attention and you could give it a try via this website:

https://chat.openai.com/

…interacts in a conversational way. The dialogue format makes it possible for ChatGPT to answer follow-up questions, admit its mistakes, challenge incorrect premises, and reject inappropriate requests.

I had a crack at it a week or so ago and got bored pretty soon, especially by the repeated verbose phrases and mealy-mouthed ‘wokeness’ of the model.

Others have taken a more combative approach, such as Mark Bisone:

( If the narrativee about the obsessive mathematician seems familiar that’s because it is the plot of the film )

The soundtrack of that film was by Clint Mansell who also composed the soundtrack for the film that’s the subject of part two of this post.

In The Earth is a really fascinating look at a different kind of ‘arftificial’ intelligence: the possibility that a place, or non-mammalian organisms, have intelligence and can be communicated with. In the film this is referred to as the mycorhiza (sp?) which is the mass of filaments under the ground, manifesting above the surface as mushrooms. This lives in symbiosis with the forest trees and other plants.

The film was made just after the first covid lockdown and includes lockdown as a theme of the film, though in this case the disease that prompts lockdown is not covid but something else, a fictional outbreak that is poorly understood.

I read somewhere that if giraffes start grazing on acacia trees they send out a chemical signal that induces nearby trees to send a bitter alkali up from the roots to the leaves. (The roots of the trees are intertwined and may constitute a single organism.) When the giraffes have polished off the first victim and browse to the next tree they find the leaves are unappetising. So they might go and eat some other tree instead.

The film plays around with these sorts of ideas and even hints that maybe the disease has vegetable origins and was nature acting in self-defence.

Anyway, I won’t spoil the film for anyone who wants to give it a try. I really liked it.

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Hi @KarenEliot , this sounds similar to Mycelium Running by Stamets - which underpinned some of the recent Startrek series, Discovery :
https://twincitiesgeek.com/2018/04/the-science-of-star-trek-discoverys-mycelial-network/

cheers

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Always loved the idea of mycelial nets as a huge comms-and-goods transportation system, ever since I first ran across them - and Paul S’s inspiring insights - years ago.

Even if they don’t promote inter-galactic instant shifting (which actually shamanic journeying does very well already, it being at bottom an information-processing thing; see below) mycelial nets are crucial parts of the lifeweb of the Earth, especially in the forests and grasslands which are the principal vectors of life at least on the Earth’s land surface.

A hugely promising field for further research and discovery, as we haven’t got anywhere near a full picture of its amazing abilities yet. Yes indeed, I think the idea of the mats being the neural/brain network of the forests and the steppes is highly encouraging; it feels innately probable to me, considering the unimaginably fulsome way that evolution creates astonishing works of sheer art and beauty.

All of these musings, btw, fit very well with Tom Campbell’s Big Theory Of Everything’s propositions: mind being the basis of all things, and mind-mediated information-transfer being the principle building block of reality, according to its view of things.

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I hope that this post can be interpreted as you’re back and that all went well Rhis? I certainly hope that’s the case.

Forgive my ignorance: Paul S?

This paper probably sails quite close to heresy, using the phrase “fungal mind”.

I’d love to find out one day that all we humans are ‘for’ is serving our toadstool overlords. (In the film there are several scenes where the mycelial network releases spores that influence the humans.)

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Yep! Wonderful team of on the ball - but overworked - medics. Piece of cake for me. I meant Paul Stamets: the fungus guru (qv).

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Appropriate on this “interactive” thread to comment that Vedic Vimanas are not evidential of “alien astronauts” but instead of the wisdom and learning of early sages who understood (as Wilhelm Reich did in a similar way), that our own organic energies may be enhanced when harmonised with external devices (as the implosion research guys are doing), …

"Discovery of Orgone Energy

Wilhelm Reich’s discovery of orgone began with his research of a physical bio-energy basis for Sigmund Freud’s theories of neurosis in humans. Wilhelm Reich believed that traumatic experiences blocked the natural flow of life-energy in the body, leading to physical and mental disease. Wilhelm Reich concluded that the libidinal-energy that Freud discussed was the primordial-energy of life itself, connected to more than just sexuality. Orgone was everywhere and Reich measured this energy-in-motion over the surface of the earth. He even determined that its motion affected weather formation.

Orgone Accumulator

In 1940, Wilhelm Reich constructed the first device to accumulate orgone energy: a six-sided box constructed of alternating layers of organic materials (to attract the energy) and metallic materials (to radiate the energy toward the center of the box). Patients would sit inside the accumulator and absorb orgone energy through their skin and lungs. The accumulator had a healthy effect on blood and body tissue by improving the flow of life-energy and by releasing energy-blocks." https://www.thoughtco.com/wilhelm-reich-and-orgone-accumulator-1992351 #Integration

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…which, funnily enough, kind of links to the paper mentioned earlier in the thread. The author speaks of ‘irritability’ in fungi, triggering a biochemical or perhaps even electrical signal being transmitted to distant hyphae. There’s also mention of the fungus ‘remembering’ this adverse stimulus, and reacting in the same way, for up to 12 hours.

Whether this should be described as ‘behaviour’ or ‘consciousness’ might be contentious but:

Rather than seeing the human mind as a unique product of evolution, Reber [1]
regards our consciousness as one expression of irritability along a
continuum of complexity. He is one of several scientists who pro-
pose that consciousness emerges from the perception of environ-
mental conditions, discrimination between helpful and harmful
stimuli, and other universal features of cellular behavior. The
literature on this subject is vast and is rooted in research on protists
in the early 1900s ( Jennings 1904 [2]; Glasgow 2018 [3] ). The theory of
cellular consciousness is a work in progress, but it certainly en-
courages us to begin paying more attention to the behavioral so-
phistication of the fungi.
There is a natural tendency to consider an organism conscious if
it appears to engage in decision-making that results in a unique
behavioral outcome

[1] Reber, A.S., 2018. The first minds: Caterpillars, karyotes, and consciousness . Oxford University Press, USA.
[2] Jennings, H.S., 1904. Contributions to the study of the behavior of lower organisms (No. 16). Carnegie institution of Washington.
[3] Glasgow, R., 2018. Minimal Selfhood and the Origins of Consciousness . BoD–Books on Demand.

Reich was trashed and ultimately put to death by the FDA, so he probably had his finger on something.

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