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Insightful article in the Guardian!

I wonder who owed Jonathan Steele a favour

Article below.The btls didn’t seem very appreciative, on a quick look.

With his incursion into Donetsk and Luhansk, Vladimir Putin has broken international law and destroyed the best negotiating track, the Minsk agreement. That is clear. What is also clear is why he did it.

An increasing number of politicians and media analysts claim Putin may be mentally unstable, or that he is isolated in a bubble of yes-men who don’t warn him of dangers ahead. Many commentators say he is trying to restore the Soviet Union or recreate a Russian sphere of influence on his country’s borders, and that this week’s intrusion into eastern Ukraine is the first step towards an all-out attack on Kyiv to topple its government and even move against the Baltic states. None of these assertions is necessarily true.

The Russian president is a rational man with his own analysis of recent European history. Coming from a former Communist, his blaming of Lenin for giving excessive scope to local nationalism in drawing up the Soviet constitution is remarkable. Similarly, his criticism of the way national elites destroyed the Soviet Union in its final years is sharp.

Does he want to turn the clock back? People often quote his statement “the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”. But it bears pointing out that he enlarged on it later, saying: “Anyone who doesn’t regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains.”

It is crucially important for those who might seek to end or ameliorate this crisis to first understand his mindset. What happened this week is that Putin lost his patience, and his temper. He is furious with the Ukraine government. He feels it repeatedly rejected the Minsk agreement, which would give the Ukrainian provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk substantial autonomy. He is angry with France and Germany, the co-signatories, and the United States, for not pressing Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, to implement them. He is equally angry with the Americans for not taking on board Russia’s security concerns about Nato’s expansion and the deployment of offensive missiles close to Russia’s borders.

To those who say Nato is entitled to invite any state to join, Putin argues that the “open door” policy is conditioned by a second principle, which Nato states have accepted: namely that the enhancement of a state’s security should not be to the detriment of the security of other states (such as Russia). As recently as 2010 Barack Obama put his signature to the principle at a summit of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE). The summit’s declaration includes a wonderfully idealistic ambition: “We recommit ourselves to the vision of a free, democratic, common and indivisible Euro-Atlantic and Eurasian security community stretching from Vancouver to Vladivostok”. This echoes Mikhail Gorbachev’s plea, when the cold war division of Europe ended, for Russia and other European states to live together in a “common European home”. We now suffer in the shadow of the thwarting of that dream.


Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today


Read more

For Putin, Obama’s signing of the OSCE statement is proof of the hypocrisy that goes back to earlier US presidents, who showed the dishonesty of Nato’s “open door” policy by rejecting Russia’s repeated feelers about joining the alliance. In his speech this week, the Russian leader said he had asked Bill Clinton about the possibility of membership but was fobbed off with the argument that Russia was too big. In 2000, during his first weeks as president, Putin was asked by David Frost on the BBC if it was possible Russia could join Nato. He replied: “I would not rule such a possibility out, if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner.”

George Robertson, a former Nato secretary general, recently recalled meeting Putin during his time at Nato: “Putin said, ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’”

From outside the alliance, Putin has seen it expand continually. He says he does not seek a revived Soviet Union but a buffer zone that would be, as he put it in a long essay last year, “not anti-Russia”. John Kennedy wanted a similar cordon sanitaire when Khrushchev tried to put nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962. Putin suggested on Tuesday that Ukraine should return to the strategy of neutrality that was in the Ukrainian constitution until the “coup” that toppled the Yanukovych government in 2014, and brought pro-US nationalists to power. After all, a majority of Ukrainian MPs then believed that the country’s fragile unity would be more secure if it was not pulled and pushed by rival pressures from Moscow and the west.

Nato’s stance over membership for Ukraine was what sparked Russia’s takeover of Crimea in 2014. Putin feared the port of Sevastopol, home of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, would soon belong to the Americans. The western narrative sees Crimea as the first use of force to change territorial borders in Europe since the second world war. Putin sees this as selective amnesia, forgetting that Nato bombed Serbia in 1999 to detach Kosovo and make it an independent state.

Convinced that Nato will never reject Ukraine’s membership, Putin has now taken his own steps to block it. By invading Donetsk and Luhansk, he has created a “frozen conflict”, knowing the alliance cannot admit countries that don’t control all their borders. Frozen conflicts already cripple Georgia and Moldova, which are also split by pro-Russian statelets. Now Ukraine joins the list. There is speculation about what will happen next but from his standpoint, it is not actually necessary to send troops further into the country. He has already taken what he needs.

  • Jonathan Steele is a former Moscow correspondent for the Guardian
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Evvy, you must have a strong stomach reading anything from the Guardian, and especially from Mr Steele.

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Seconded, but it’s a sane article, which in this day and age is noteworthy. The agitariat won’t be liking this: repeating the mantra Om Mane Putin Bad is barely even enough to ward off the cancellation squads. implying that Vlad is actually a rational human is prolly not gonna end well.

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Hi @Evvy_dense , interesting and rare article in that he actually suggests Putin has reasons for his actions but this doesn’t sound like the usual opinion piece. The only expression of his opinion is in the statements that Russia has acted illegally and what it has done todate is all they need to do, given his lack of legal justification for the legality issue it is merely his opinion, imo :slight_smile:

The rest of the article is constructed as if the world can look into Putin’s head and see his opinions, whilst at the same time failing to point out Putin’s stated reasons for his operation- de-militarisation & de-nazification of Ukraine to protect the breakaway republics and Russia itself.

If great care is not taken, I think Russia may find itself in a viscious cycle of military supplies from the Western defence industry requiring constant Russian State and Donbass republic guerilla responses to destroy them. This looks like a win win win for western corporates… a bit like a military pandemic with vaccine weaponry!

cheers

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There seem to be two components interspersed; one from Milne and one imposed by the desk. I think putting in an assertion about war crimes is probably a non-negotiable desk requirement - probably the invasion is a war crime if viewed on its own but it would be argued that Ukraine was threatening Russia itself by in its actions on the border, and perhaps by its stated Nato and nuclear ambitions.
Obviously Russia’s stated reasons are more substantial than the dross that’s been used to defend western adventurism against non-threatening countries, and in terms of the numbers being killed (130000 in Donbass since 2014, in total) allow reasonable argument in terms of proportionality, in contrast to Israel’s wars for example, based on handfuls of annual deaths from rockets.
Regime change is normally illegal but regime change because a country is actually attacking you is an interesting one. Russia’s recognition of the independence of the regions being attacked - putting its defense of the regions on a notional par with Nato-type agreements - was a good move against this quasi-legal background, you can tell this from the massive indignant international squawking that greeted it.

Of course when the west mentions 'international law" or “war crimes” it should always have a winky smiley attached to it, or laughter even.

I’ve not seen anyone else in the mainstream point out that Nato impinges on Russia security, and the US is in agreements regarding Russia’s security.

A couple of thoughts:

“None of these assertions is necessarily (desk edit?) true”.

“He is sharp” and “the elites destroyed the soviet union” would look more like Russian propaganda - he can’t say that.

But

“Similarly, his criticism of the way national elites destroyed the Soviet Union in its final years is sharp.”

is more desk-proof.

Milne makes it clear that Putin has been trying to join Nato (which would be great for world security, but would defeat the western anti-Russian purpose). Therefore, along with the revelation of Putin’s olive branches, the current situation is not one of a madman on the rampage.

He also makes it clear that Putin is unlikely to be attempting to recreate the Soviet Union. This is useful, because neocons, pundits and public alike are all claiming this.

I’d say the discernible Milne part of the article is excellent - pity about the desk (the worst omission is the eight-year shelling by the Ukraine of its own civilians, surely MIlne would have put this in if he was allowed to), but it’s good of them to put a stamp on which is which :slightly_smiling_face:

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Oh come now Pat, would you have us believe that if you search for something and it comes up only in a ‘bad place’, you won’t read or use it?

Milne? What am I not getting here? It’s by the hack Steele, isn’t it?

The division between what the author actually thinks and what the obligatory-virtue-signalling desk insists on intruding is utterly obvious - and laughable. Who’d want to whore for an outfit like the Fraud, and be treated like this when you submit a piece? Jonathan Cook was the man with the balls: Saw the reality, and quit, to work precariously but honourably as a freelance.

Oops, there’s been a morphism!
Though if I’m allowed to be economical with my gray matter and only use one brain cell for the names of genuine left wing Guardian writers, I’m sure I can share it with the two of them (Milne and Steele) :slightly_smiling_face:. Apparently Steele writes for Middle-east eye, where Cook also publishes.

Sorry Evvy. Didn’t make the point well. I just can’t bear to give the Guardian even one page view. After their total capture and full scale betrayal of the so called “left” I think of the Guardian in the same way as I view the BBC. Just hearing, reading, or hearing about anything they have to say raises my blood pressure. I’m just off for a couple of Valiums and a lie down!

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I can only speak for myself but any links to the Guardian are easy to work around: always copy the address and edit so that it points to dumptheguardian.com (the rest of the address from the forward slash and onward stays the same). I was an occasional reader, weekend edition, but mainly for the crossword. One time prize crossword winner so I have the G book of style somewhere. It confines itself to writing style rather than modes of thought :wink:

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Thanks KE, I get the Dump the Guardian thing but I don’t understand why it’s just the Guardian. Many who advocate this watch the equally state-controlled BBC or at least use it for music. I would be more convinced by people advising boycotting something they actually used. US corporate products would be a good example, which would for some be a real loss.
Also in the age of the coronavirus (remember it? seems a while back already!) you have to use ‘bad’ right wing sites (that are worse than the G or the BBC on politics) to get real news. I’d be too busy ‘dumping’ everything to get anything done!

Good points Evvy. If theres a dump the Beeb equivalent I’d be keen to hear about it.

This is a personal prejudice but I rub shoulders with almost exclusively Guardian-reading pronoun dimwits. The sort of people who, when i ask how they are, out of simulated politeness (the bourgeoise love all that) reply, sotto voce, “much better now I don’t have to share an office with that antivaxxer”. It’s the assumption that everyone thinks like them which is hard to keep quiet about, but a lifetime of masking (in this sense) ensures I remain employed, to date :smile:

That conversation really happened, earlier this week. Casual throwaway hatred, but politely expressed, not calling anybody a dick or that kind of thing.

The sort of people who bleat constantly about privilege, never even considering that living in a home with electricity and running water is in itself a privilege.

So absorbing any more of their toxic hypocrisy really is too much for me and the guardian really is a click too far.

Sorry to rant.

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Damned glad I don’t have your employment imperatives to cope with, K. Here, in rural, water-borne seclusion, my few neighbours are all solidly sceptical, non-conforming working-class friends. We don’t have to politely pretend about the mind-fuckery: we just scoff and laugh at it openly - amongst ourselves. No poison-stabs taken by anyone.

Further down the same back-water, though, there are skippers who’ve done the whole hook-line-and-sinker swallow of the propaganda. We skirt tactfully round their - now slowly fading - covid delusions… Terror-porn loses its potency over time, even for the more susceptible. I’ve been impressed by the way that that ebbing, together with lots of people’s growing boredom with the covid bollocks, has forced the conspirators and their useful idiots in technocratery, pocket-politics and mediawhoring to begin back-pedalling away from the whole scam. People have had enough of it; the Great Beast is saying: “No, no more! piss off!”. And the scuttling trimmers are obliged to back away. Breath of fresh air!

And now we’ve all got the Russian boil-lancing operation in the Ukraine to do our concern-signalling about: Those dreadful sub-human snow-niggers! An all new fad, to let us forget about oh-so-last-year covid (and how terribly concerned about it that we were - last year!) :rofl:

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Well of course they are calling the non-vaxxer a dick, in their language, which won’t help much :|.
No need to apologize, no rant experienced - ears none the worse! Mind slightly improved, thanks…hadn’t thought of the experience of being in the middle of the hypocrisy every day. Like not being able to turn the BBC off; and them actually talking to you as well, or rather throwing some of that smug hypocrisy at you. Pure hell - any evasive action taken justified under self-defence!
Whereas the arms industry, who the Guardian serves, are actually more open - they just don’t talk to the media! And the WEF too - open with each other, relying on the media to tell us it’s just a conspiracy theory.

Media Lens long ago concluded the media was the problem, but a solution is proving elusive.
Really excellent alert from them yesterday

One or two quibbles probably to do with the concept of ‘the desk’ - despite not having one, the reality that if they come across as Putin-lovers nobody will read them. They might have compared the Russian invasion with the US professional jobs - but I think it was wiser to stick to the media, as they did.
Other than that, I thought it was… virtuoso.

Cheers

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[quote=“KarenEliot, post:12, topic:2846”]
This is a personal prejudice but I rub shoulders with almost exclusively Guardian-reading pronoun dimwits. The sort of people who, when i ask how they are, out of simulated politeness (the bourgeoise love all that) reply, sotto voce, “much better now I don’t have to share an office with that antivaxxer”. It’s the assumption that everyone thinks like them which is hard to keep quiet about, but a lifetime of masking (in this sense ) ensures I remain employed, to date :smile:
[/quote]

Very similar to my academic workplace “Guardian-reading pronoun dimwits.” – that’s a good one! I’m afraid I couldn’t keep quiet, probably the reason why I never had any promotion (I’ve left now – couldn’t stand giving recorded lectures or take part in more “blended” learning all to “keep us safe”). Of course, speaking up is easier if you have a permanent position. But it’s remarkable how few speak up even in such a position and when they completely agree with you in private.

To clarify: I work a three day week, one of those at home, so I only have to grit my teeth in Woke Central for two days a week. The university actually issued a safety advisory cautioning against travel to Ukraine. I didn’t read it but a colleague summarised for me, adding “No shit”. When another commented that her cousin or some such was visiting from Australia I got away with saying “Oh they’re allowed out now are they?” Little lapses like this are tolerated of we simpletons, and unless and until Questions Are Asked about nonattendance at the Two Minute Hate ill probably be ok.

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Yes a very good piece.

I liked the reference to some sabre-rattling professor as a stalwart of the “101st Chairborne Division”. Touché.

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One time prize crossword winner so I have the G book of style somewhere.
I sent in dozens of those crosswords and got fuck all. In the end, like you, w/e edition only for the book reviews - and the hope of an Araucaria alphabet job. I wouldn’t trust a book review in that dirty rag now. Come to think of it the bloody crossword will be NLPd too. I’m with PatB - nearest I get to reading any of its filth now is on OffG. Stay clean!

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Believe me I sent in many many entries. The Araucaria numberless A-Z grids were a whole weekends entertainment.

I don’t know if they still run but the Oldie crosswords were even better. Won a few of those too.