In case you're worried about getting the - entirely honourable - label 'anti-vaxer', read Steve Kirsch on Robert Kennedy

Being highly, highly suspicious of ALL vaccines, is wise application of the precautionary principle. If you or any of yours are in danger of accepting a vaccine injection - especially the current flood-tide of ‘vaccines’ (actually gene-tampering, long-term poisons) - take note of the lies-and-corruption-ridden criminality of the ‘public health protecting’ agencies pushing vaccines (quaxines being a better description), as described in this account given to Steve by Robert.

The meticulously-honest stance on vaccines is this: some, for some purposes, MAY be useful. This needs to be massively evidenced before any particular instance is accepted. And it needs comprehensive information about ALL the ingredients in the shot, with equally convincing evidence-stacks that NONE of them are in any way of doubtful safety. On those criteria, thimerosal, for example, falls at the first fence:

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I’ve just had a look at what our ‘learned’ experts [WHO! and CDC!] say about using mercury as a type of ‘preservative’ :scream:
(they use ‘thimerosal’ to disguise Mercury’s name and its true nature as a poison, as this might cause upset :wink:).

This ‘vaccine’ just gets worse, doesn’t it?

Thanks, once more, Rhisart.
Another interesting, but horrific, part of this giant scam.

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This is the basic reason why I never take vaccination, neither for myself nor for any creature under my care. In actual daily practice, the criteria that I outline above are virtually never fulfilled. As the hard-nosed dissident realists point out, there’s no such thing as a vaccine that never kills or injures even one victim. They all cause some casualties. And by now it’s become unmistakable that the very small percentage of children who are protected by people like me from ever getting vaccinated - for ANYTHING - are noticeably more healthy and vigorous than the poor sods who’ve been child-abused with the whole wretched, criminal schedule pumped up - entirely for WealthPowerStatus - by the BPh gangsters, and the compliant, heavily-indoctrinated allopathic-medicine professionals who toe their line.

The whole history of vaccine theory and development is rife with appalling non-scientific behaviour, up to and very much including outright fraud. By now, many will have been hearing lately about Pasteur’s feet of clay over germ theory. And similar questions hang over the actual doings of the people who developed immunisation-with-vaccine theory. These two fields of current theory, very much pillars of modern Western allopathic medical theorising, are deeply problematic.

To me this looks exactly like those times in the history of science, and of ideas more broadly, when a Kuhnian revolution is overdue, because of the growing weight of anomalies bearing down on the old established theories: something is about to break; as, for example, when the Vatican’s chief astronomer, Christopher Clavius, stunned his masters and their retainers by declaring that Galileo/Copernicus/Kepler/Brahe and the rest of the revolutionary reprobates of that time were right, and the - previously-dangerous-to-even-question - Ptolemaic theory of the heavens was wrong, and must be discarded.

Score the acceleration towards this current upcoming revolution in medical thinking as a wholly-unexpected outcome of the covid scamdemic. The conspirators - and their useful-sucker Deceived Influencers - who have been table-top-gaming and planning this scam for some time never saw this coming, I don’t think! :rofl:

As the conspiracy falls apart, there are going to be some panicked operators scurrying about desperately searching for ways to dodge the Mills-of-God consequences of their culpabilities. And meanwhile, the revolution will proceed - as the saying goes - “one death at a time”, as the gocos of the current belief system grow old and depart, leaving the way clear, as usual, for the more flexible minds of the rising generation to usher in the new (actually new/old) anomaly-resolving worldview…

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Hi Rhis. Some thoughts.
The anti-vaxxer label may be a badge of honour in some circumstances but can be undesirable in others, as it suggests the possibility of a diehard position in which any evidence cited may be cherrypicked in order to shore up a fixed viewpoint that has been arrived at via prior convictions, dislikes or emotional commitment.

I prefer labels that relate to factual reasons and evidence. You yourself have sitipulated that a vaccine has to be safe, effective and necessary. All of these are data-dependent.
Leaving aside a possible fourth requirement (is it really even a vaccine?), I’d say that the covid vaccines are short in terms of evidence of safety (practically ignored despite massive, mounting signals) and necessity (safe early treatments are being suppressed at huge effort and cost).
Effectiveness is a closer call - if you focus only on covid deaths, and answer the apparent conundrum of counting people as unvaccinated up to two weeks after their jab (when there seem to be covid spikes), you might be able to say the covid ‘vaccines’ at least reduce the deaths that were related to covid - but this debatable benefit appears to me to be heavily outweighed by the certainty of risks and the safe alternatives.

Evaluating each vaccine on a case by case basis makes sense. If your proverbial, demonstrated safe, effective and necessary vaccine appears (and really IS a vaccine, not a gene therapy) I’m all for it. To me the onus is really on those recommending or touting particular vaccines, or using them as coercion, to demonstrate their value rigorously, in terms of these clearly defined criteria - while respecting individual’s right to decline to buy.

We’re a long way from that of course. Until it is accepted that selling medical interventions by propaganda, inducement, coercion or chleb advertising is a breach of medical ethics and the individual’s bodily autonomy and rights, a real debate can’t even begin.
Cheers

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To be clear Rhis, I’m a fan of your Safe, Effective and Necessary.
Makes SENse :slightly_smiling_face:
And it’s got to be a god-darned vaccine as well
Power of SVEN?
I’m on the side of SEVN! (Though Leonard Cohen says they always lose)

The most basic real debate, E, is: Do we need vaccines at all? I suggest that’s a taboo question right now, since at this time they have a mantle of holy, unquestionable truth wrapped about them (purely by societal-indoctrination propaganda, and for, at best, pretty damned shabby motivations in the propagandists): this is a sacred truth, which we must never even think of questioning.

I would start from the position that proponents of vaccines must first demonstrate - with watertight and massive evidence - that we do really need them; that there is NO alternative approach to maintaining general health to the same level of universal excellence; that vaccines work reliably, and entirely innocently, and take us to states of general populace health that no other approach can hope to better.

Seems to me that that’s a simply unattainable ideal. Meanwhile, using that same absolute right of freedom to choose, I’d say that I, numerous like-minded friends, and the children and other animals whom we’ve reared, have all demonstrated that vigorous health and longevity - even in today’s polluted and stress-flooded society - is still attainable without the need for any truck with vaccines. No need to presume to gild an already pretty good, long-evolved, natural lily!

It would be necessary, too, to clear away another sacred myth of our time: that life in previous, pre-hitech eras was - inevitably - a good deal nastier, more brutish, and short than it is now, in matters of routinely-experienced health. We are all indoctrinated to believe that trope without a hint of doubt. But I do doubt it. I think we’re all fed a paper-thin, hyper-sketchy idea of what health was really like in those times; rather in the same way that so many of we Westerners believe with limpid confidence that we ‘know for sure’ all sorts of things about China when in fact we really know almost nothing with any genuine confidence, and for the same wholly untrustworthy propaganda/indoctrination reasons.

The same level-playing-field criteria would have to apply for those times as for this present one. In particular: that comparable populations should have comparable general conditions of life to promote reliable health and life-long vigour. Despite our indoctrination, I doubt that, given those provisos, health really was so much worse in former pre-vax, pre-techie times. It’s for the vaccine-faithful to prove “beyond reasonable doubt”. And I don’t believe they can. Meanwhile, my advice is always the same: ‘Vaccines? No thanks! No need! Eat right, live right, and don’t fret! Oh - and take care to have sturdy-peasant ancestors…’

Really, it’s that old dispute between technocrat certainty that they can ‘improve’ on nature (and ‘control’ it) versus the luddite belief that harmonising with the ancient natural processes is by far the wiser way to be. I’m deeply unimpressed by technocrat posturing, as I’m sure you already grasp. :slight_smile:

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Yes. Of course had that debate taken place when covid appeared, the financially and power-driven vaccine would have fallen at the first hurdle - necessity, never mind all the others!

Rhis, you might want to try living in France at the moment. Today the French PM, Jean Castex, has announced that the option of a negative test is no longer there (they won’t tell you that in the headlines). You have to now take the jabs, or else you are effectively excluded from society. The lunatics started injecting five-year-old children last week.

How you lot put up with yet another little prick, called Mark Drakeford, is beyond me.

They are all going to be put on trial and will be hanged; take my word for it.

In the meantime, whatever your faith is, a happy Christmas to you and yours.

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By the way, for a laugh maybe someone should start a poll about this: who are the biggest pricks over the last few years? Mark Drakeford would certainly be there, as would wee Jimmy Krankie north of the border. Justin Trudeau of course, in Canada. Then we go to the tranny down-under, Adearn, and a plethora of complete lunatics in Australia. Back to Europe with Macron, Bojo, et al.

Thinking about it, it goes on and on. There’s so many of these complete lunatics.

My top one, of course, would have to be Dan Andrews, the Premier of the Australian state of Victoria. Andrews is such a power crazed lunatic (and total non-entity) that it would make Caligula blush.

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Fauci, all the way. He simply doesn’t have any plausible deniability. His influence has contaminated whole stratae of “experts”. His day of Reckoning is very close now.

thanks for posting this, excellent concise summary.

A very thought provoking and levelheaded discussion. I live in France by the way and as Brit, am extremely concerned about the ongoing lunatic restrictions already in place or being prepared to be put in place. A petition opposing the introduction of a so called vaccine passport, as of yesterday, had close to 800,000 signatories. I sincerely hope the French rise up in huge numbers to overthrow and bring to trial, those criminally responsible the yoke of tyranny being forced upon us.

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You’ve got my vote Rob! Andrews was the original and best, demonstrating all the best features of a psychopath, as well as a grip on his followers like the worst of wife-beaters. At one of the rallies I went to, where tens of thousands of ordinary folk found friendship and solidarity and chanted “sack Dan Andrews” or “fuck dan Andrews” - the loyalist media spent days talking about death threats to the Premier and about how a gallows had been towed past parliament.
However, Andrews’ example led the way for other state leaders to show how tough they could be too, with at least three of them showing similar psychopathy.
It would, as you say so honestly, be good to see them all strung up, for crimes against humanity, but if we include the accomplices there mightn’t be enough rope.
I’m not inclined to be generous to these people, the ones who MUST know. But we must try to be generous to those who have been tricked and deceived into willing compliance, even though they’ve been so abusive to us, as Icke says.

Welcome M - to join the number of once-were-Francophiles here, before the fall. I’ve signed a few petitions like this on Mesopinions.com, but also follow French news channels. RT is the best for balance, and with some dedicated “liberte’rian” commentators. What Castex and Veran have been able to get through the Assembly is extraordinary, particularly in France with its tradition of thought and resistance and principles; all have fallen to the corrupt tentacles of Pharma and its friends. But statistics are encouraging despite appearances - around 5 million French have not had ONE jab, with the percentage of resisters highest in 30-49 year olds and then over 75s at around 10%, but also up around 30% in some departments - hautes Provence and Bouches du Rhone. Interesting that those were areas where the “68ers” went to live and raise their hippie families, and who seem to be maintaining some principles of “freedom”.
I don’t believe it will be possible to introduce this pass vaccinal without significant public resistance, particularly on the basis of an ephemeral new mutant strain; somehow the shit has to hit the fan.
Please keep us informed on how it feels in the society, as it’s so hard to find out.

Dimac,
Thanks for your comments. To be honest, we have tried to avoid the French or UK media which seem to be singing from the same Covid hymn sheet, relentlessly pushing the need for vaccination. We are weary of all of it but are encouraged by the growing resistance thanks to the efforts of the likes of Rodolphe Bacquet. More and more voices in the medical profession ie doctors and nurses are adding their voices opposing the vaccination programme and restrictions on
freedoms.
We live in the SW around 80kms from Bordeaux and traditionally in our department at least, are historically Socialist. The older French population (in my area anyway, seem to have been completely taken in by the fearmongering and seem incapable of thinking outside of the box). This could be partly due to a lack of intellectual skills or just resignation, who knows.
The younger more educated Brit expats who live here seem to have gone along with the vaccination coercion in order to be able to work or travel.
There have been as you will be aware, anti Pass Sanitaire demonstrations taking place in the larger towns and cities which are of course not reported in the MSM. Whether these rallies will continue and increase in numbers in the New Year, remains to be seen.