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How does the Rule of Claw define "genocide" - check out Srebrenica: killing 8,000 men & boys and displacing 20,000

" Press release

Srebrenica genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina: Foreign Secretary’s statement on the 25th anniversary

The Foreign Secretary has given a statement on the 25th anniversary of the Srebrenica genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina.


Foreign & Commonwealth Office and The Rt Hon Dominic Raab MP


11 July 2020

On the 25th anniversary of the Srebrenica genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has reiterated the UK’s commitment to supporting reconciliation across the Western Balkans.

Today (11 July) marks 25 years since the Srebrenica genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the worst atrocity in Europe since the end of the Second World War. More than 8,000 mostly Muslim men and boys were murdered and over 20,000 women and children were forcibly expelled from their homes.
2 international courts, the UN International Criminal Tribunal for the former-Yugoslavia (ICTY) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ), after exhaustive legal processes, have ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide"

Who are we to disagree with the ICTY and the ICJ - well there are loads of people who have pointed out that it seems strange that the “act of genocide” in Srebrenica involved moving women and children to safe places away from the areas of conflict and that both sides to the conflict were killed in the area at the same time -like in a war!


I’m sure most of this board are aware that one of the key works on genocide is this:

It covers multiple “genocides” as well as “benign blood baths” which for political reasons never make it to “genocides” in the West - the latter include 2 Palestinian events - Sabra and Shatila in 1982 and Operation Cast Lead in 2008 - both of which are now taking place again in Gaza.

they conclude :

"Just as the guardians of “international justice” have yet to find
a single crime committed by a Great White-Northern Power
against people of color that crosses their threshold of gravity, so
too all of the fine talk about the “responsibility to protect” and the
“end of impunity” has never once been extended to the victims of
these same powers, no matter how egregious the crimes. The
Western establishment rushed to proclaim “genocide” in BosniaHerzegovina, Rwanda, Kosovo, and Darfur, and also agitated for tribunals to hold the alleged perpetrators accountable. In contrast, its silence over the crimes committed by its own regimes against the peoples of Southeast Asia, Central America, the Middle East, and Sub-Saharan Africa is deafening. This is the
“politics of genocide.” "

13 years old, the 150 pages of highly relevant information are just as valid today, imo.


Quite right @CJ1 . On Srebrenica, it was our good friend Tony Bliar who initiated the dismantling of Yugoslavia by claiming (falsely of course) that 2,000 people had been killed and "[he] felt that this was the closest thing to racial genocide that I’ve seen in Europe since the Second World War."

Where the **** is he today? I expect still in his Tel Aviv hotel suite even though he’s no longer the ‘Middle East Peace Envoy’.

For anyone with short memories (like mine), here are what seem to me to be reasonable sources.


1 Like

Thanks for the links @PatB , I prefer Morrison to Unherd as the latter appears to do a lot of fence straddling, certainly in the language used.

The question whether any event is a genocide committed by a state can never be decided by the ICJ where the accused state is not a party to the treaty or convention under which it was established - the USA is not a party to it and hence can’t fall under its jurisdiction.

I find it interesting that candidates standing for the office of judge of the ICT can only be proposed by states who are signed up to the convention - yet the current president of the court is from the USA her cv includes working for the US State Dept!

[ Previous members of the 15 judges of the panel have usually included a USA judge! To me the majority look pretty Western!


But that’s alright she says 'cos she’s independent:

Donoghue says she does not see herself as a representative of the United States to the court. “When I was at the State Department I served my country by representing it,” she says, “and now I serve my country by being independent of it.” While Donoghue acknowledges that the judges’ nationality plays a role, she says it is for a different reason than people think. “Nationality has shaped the way we think because of the schooling we have, the kind of legal training we have, certainly our perspectives on issues are influenced by our nationality, but we are so much more than that,” she says.”

Presidents of the Court get paid over $215,000 p.a. and then after 9 years a pension of $107,000 + p.a. - would this influence her thinking in not rocking any boats?

The ICJ ruling in 2007 piggy-backed on the ICTY’s fiction, sorry fact finding in deciding to follow the ICTY in saying there was a genocide committed in Srebrenica.

The case took 16 years to reach a poorly determined political decision, imo.


PS Of course Israel like the US has not accepted ICJ jurisdiction and is not a member of the ICC.

brilliant explanation of genocide in Palestine from Craig Mokhiber human rights lawyer recently resigning from the UN:
(H/T TLN RaskolnikovX)
It’s Genocide Plain and Simple


To support Craig Mokhiber above this is the main Convention:

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide


09 December 1948


General Assembly resolution 260 A (III)

Entry into force: 12 January 1951, in accordance with article XIII

The Contracting Parties ,

Having considered the declaration made by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its resolution 96 (I) dated 11 December 1946 that genocide is a crime under international law, contrary to the spirit and aims of the United Nations and condemned by the civilized world,

Recognizing that at all periods of history genocide has inflicted great losses on humanity, and

Being convinced that, in order to liberate mankind from such an odious scourge, international co-operation is required,

Hereby agree as hereinafter provided :

Article I

The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article III

The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;

(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;

(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide.

Article IV

Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in article III shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals.

Article VIII

Any Contracting Party may call upon the competent organs of the United Nations to take such action under the Charter of the United Nations as they consider appropriate for the prevention and suppression of acts of genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in article III.

Interesting that Craig Mokhiber considers vetoing a UNSC resolution to take action to suppress genocide could in itself be regarded as complicity in genocide!
I wonder if failure to call for a full ceasefire by individual MP’s could be regarded as complicity in genocide! Or directing police to arrest people calling for such a ceasefire, and police themselves arresting such persons!