Well you won’t find anything like this on the BBC.
Fraser Myers, deputy editor of Spiked Online. Vocal enthusiast for the covid vaccines, bit of a bruiser on the subject.
vs
Andrew Bridgen, the MP raising concerns, and facts and figures - he is trained in biology and virology including genetics. As we all know, this got him into hot water with the party’s grey suits.
They are almost within kicking distance of each other.
The different way the discussion is conducted by the two sides is very revealing, IMO.
I heard this when it was broadcast and was slapping my head in frustration.
There are at least 2 key points (lies) uttered by Myers that go wholly unchallenged by Bridgen:
Myers insisted that the shots were not experimental, stating ‘the phase 3 trials have concluded’ - well yes, for some of the shots P3 may have concluded - but they were so early this year, that’s 18 months or so after being ‘rolled out’ to the public - - in fact Pfizer has extended its P3 trials by 9 months - that gives an end date of Feb '24. Really, Bridgen letting that pass without comment is very slack - surely, if trials are still in process as folk are rolling up their sleeves, then that’s evidentially an experiment.
Similarly, Myers dismissed the Yellow Card reporting with the standard lie about ‘sore arms’ - when we know that fairly early in the reporting as many as 1300 fatalities had been logged - - and it’s worth noting that thereafter the cited fatalities radically stalled - the number of fatalities across the different shots now stands at 2272 (according to UK Column reckoning - - I’ve given up trying navigate UKGov/MHRA websites as they’ve seemingly made it near impossible to get an overall view). Anyhow, Bridgen allowing that lie to go unchallenged is unforgivable. He could have made the point that in saner times new drugs were pulled after causing far, far fewer deaths.
Pretty much everything said by Myers is highly suspect, but had Bridgen confronted Myers on either of those 2 critical points he could easily have exposed Myers’ tendency towards lying/being uniformed.
Hi @NewSi , you’re quite right but then again how often are we all in that situation -“I wish I’d have mentioned that” - ! Another thing he missed was the ending of trials after only a few weeks by Pfizer wiping out the control group through giving them all the jab!
He also could have pointed out that Pfizer has form in the light of their fines - billions I believe most involving fraud, so they are prima facie untrustworthy!
Finally AB mentioned excess deaths but didn’t give himself enough time to explain what he was talking about - all cause mortality excluding covid numbers! I don’t think he even made the point that 2,500 excess deaths were in one week alone!
Two good points @NewSi. The claim the vaccine injuries were trivial should have been countered directly as you say, would have been straightforward. I think the other one was probably limited by time. They get roughly equal time, but it’s quicker to say “There were Phase 3 trials” than explain why they were not proper trials. Echoes what @CJ1 said. Though I think he did mention the 22% excess deaths figure was weekly. He could also have mentioned though, that it was the same for all the western, most vaxed countries, and started in 2021 despite covid.
A quick zoom through reminds me he had to spend a lot of time on origins of covid - another area where Myers just attacked him on no basis. Bridgen did well there to run through his sources, but it’s kind of unproductive ground in terms on influencing the public.
I think Bridgen came knowing the personal attacks would be flying in his face, and set up as the calm guy with the evidence behind him. and who is also qualified to explain it. He referred to plenty of evidence, in contrast to Myers who seemed to appeal mainly to the sound of his own voice, or perhaps his supporters. “The vaccines are brilliant!”
In pure debating terms the outcome was settled for me, when Myers yet again tried to ridicule Bridgen for making unsupported claims, Bridgen having already mentioned 20 studies. Bridgen said I’ll send you the studies and Myers said they were “outliers”. What a chancer!
It’s interesting that Bridgen was at first attacked in the press as just lifting information from anti-vax conspiracy theorists. I only learned much later of his relevant scientific qualifications.
Yes, CJ, that’s true - and it has been a perennial complaint from the likes of us that our ‘champions’ often fail to land the crucial blows in these types of scenarios - I appreciate that countering a barrage of bullshitty talking points that have become firmly lodged in the public consciousness courtesy of the PBB can’t be easy - but that said, Bridgen should by now know how these encounters work and should imo be much more adept at responding in a high-pressure environment. He should at least be sufficiently across his material that he can counter such obvious lies about trials and harms.
I agree, he could have also gotten Myers on the points you raise.
Hi @Evvy_dense, thanks for pointing out my error on the excess deaths point, my bad! Perhaps though it would be best to argue on the same grounds as Myers where he talks of overall deaths from covid from the start - now adding up to 3 years of numbers ( which include deaths from covid as well as deaths with covid and which can just be after a “positive” PCR result where we know that the PCR test can never be indicative of disease, Kerry Mullis describes it as a method of magnifying anything that is being analysed not a diagnostic tool ) - so instead of referring to a weekly number it’s time to add all the weeks up since C and give us the accumulated excess deaths from all causes excluding C and compare these with previous 3 year totals?
Absolutely! Such an obvious phoney. Thing is, I still can’t fathom whether or not these people really, really believe the things they say, or if they are simply lying.
You’re right @CJ1 nobody should be citing a weekly figure. There wasn’t much the two weeks previously, and before that it was high…
Though he’s a politician under the provocation of a bunfight with a loudmouth, and he also has his own skin to fight for.
From the tactical point of view it’s fair old bet that Myers would never even look up the 22% figure and as far as I know he still hasn’t. But not a sound tactic, maybe he was ready to responde with the steady 10% over a longer period, which seems to prevail throughouht the west. An enormous number of people.
Actually I’ve not seen anyone point out the 22% figure is an exaggeration - maybe Bridgen didn’t know that!
Also on your point about a more widescope view, I’d forgottten about this - luckily all the way from Florida, I’ve had today’s email from Dr Cremola to remind me of this official UK data.
“Ill-defined conditions”:
For 2022 overall, the leading cause of excess deaths was symptoms, signs, and ill-defined conditions in both England, with 4,756 excess deaths (36.9% above average), and Wales, with 231 excess deaths (30.4% above average).
These aren’t the usual killer diseases simply bumped up by health pressures! So bang goes that excuse, which I think is the one people assume.
Cheers
Thanks @Evvy_dense for the link, - interesting that there continued to be the massive fall in flu and pneumonia:
“Considering 2022 overall, deaths due to influenza and pneumonia had the greatest number of deaths below average in both England (4,665 fewer deaths; 19.9% below average) and Wales (537 fewer deaths; 27.9% below average).”
There maybe a confounding factor to 2020 et seq injuries and deaths - the 5G rollout - Tess Laurie here and in a talk with Beverley Rubik:
Thanks for the video @Evvy_dense . Always easier on the outside, but I would have started with “I’m [Andrew] a biologist, a virologist, … and I’ve quoted from x number of scientific papers which I’ve read before quoting from. Please tell me what your qualifications are”
As for the links posted by @CJ1 they are a little late to the party but better late than never. David Icke was already there early on in 2020. What is it they say? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win!!
Hi @PatB I missed most of 2020 for personal reasons - I hadn’t appreciated the similarities between the symptoms for Covid and those for EMI as outline by Rubik and is called postulate 3 in Dr Magda Havas’ lecture here:
cheers
PS Just noticed that your post below linked to the paper from Rubik and Brown - I clearly need to pay attention when reading!
I also just watched the long interview with David Icke below that you posted in March 2021 which I seemed to have missed - dynamite stuff -
