I’m quite shocked that after a long period retweeting many of her posts Eva K. Bartlett has blocked me because I disagree with Andrei Martyanaov (see his video below). What does this indicate to you on this board? Was I out of line? How was it not a betrayal?
Martyanaov is in my opinion a complete Russian propagandist, which doesn’t mean he’s not worth listening to. Bartlett I thought was a real journalist…but maybe she’s a Russian propagandist too.
My point is that Russia invaded and occupied a region, some people in that region supported them, and now they are leaving those people, in an apparently planned retreat, without protection. Which is what happened in Bucha also and we know the atrocities which followed. So this to me is the very definition of a planned betrayal.
Bartlett posted the link to Martyanov’s video. Here’s my response tweet:
He says those who wanted to evacuate were evacuated & ‘the truth is the majority of civilians remaining…are pro-Ukrainian’. How in the world can he know this? Impossible. Rather than explaining how a betrayal didn’t happen he is justifying & whitewashing a planned betrayal.
Here’s the part of the video where he’s talking about the concept of betrayal:
Eva is certainly locked into “tankie” way of thinking and many others have been quick to retrofit an explanation similar to that of Martyanov: summarised as “it’s a clever trap”. I honestly don’t know, but it’s definitely an escalation, and the coming days/weeks are likely to be eventful.
Each side will spin things their way, and end up believing their own story. I guess EKB is the same.
The strikes on Ukrainian power grid are the type of strategy NATO has used many times to demoralise designated enemies, and signal another escalation. Odd though how Kyiv is spared, so far.
It’s a war zone and throughout history, the civilians come stone dead last.
When elephants fight, it is the grass that is trampled.
I wouldn’t trust either side to protect me. You’re gonna be used.
I used to play an MMO called The Secret World. Was a good distraction, let down by lack of publicity. But I digress. What’s stuck with me is the intro;
You’re stood with good on one side, and evil on the other. Both say simultaneously “Be mindful of the voices” Good goes on to say “They seek to corrupt”
I don’t remember what evil says, says most about how I wanted to play the game starting out I guess…
But, be mindful of the voices. We live in a post truth world nowadays, and have done for sometime. For me, everything is plausible, no matter how outlandish anymore. It’s just a question of distilling the claims until you have proof (no pun intended).
Where did Bartlett come from? Cadwalladr came from nowhere prior to Brexit. Had written a couple of nothing pieces at most prior to her “scoops” Martyanov is ex military. Useful as an insight to Russian military thinking. His opinions will be wrong on occasion as things change, even in the military.
The retreat may or may not be a ‘clever trap’. But note, if ‘clever trap’ is the story (planned retreat) and if civilians were left behind at the mercy of the Ukrainians, after having been promised protection, then the ‘clever trap’ theory INCLUDES the betrayal of civilians who trusted the Russian govt for protection. Maybe that’s typical in war, but remember the Russian propagandists also insist that this is not a war, it’s a Special Military Operation one of whose supposed goals is to protect ethnic Russians…thus this retreat in my opinion cannot be separated from betrayal. Note also, if it is a trap the last thing they would want to do is to alert the Ukrainians that it is a trap by suddenly evacuating every pro russia in the occupied zone…
EB has been around for quite a while now - and always doing great work in my experience. I used to cite EB regularly when debating the Melunits on Melanie Phillips’ Spectator blog - - EB did some great work around farming in Gaza following the ‘withdrawal’ of the settlers from that region - - her work on that front was extraordinary, and brave…imo
E, please remember, EB has been a fierce battler for truth for a good couple of decades now, and she risks her very life every day that she takes to the field to gather info - - you’re probably aware that she is on the Ukie hit list, and there can be no doubt that her life is in peril. Maybe Eva is somewhat frazzled, and has treated you ill - but please try to cut her some slack.
Hi folks, I don’t know whether everyone follows the UvR conflict on this site:
I have found it has been successful in providing information which overtime has largely proved accurate.
The link above moves on from the “Russian Trap” theory, which he did discuss in earlier episodes, to one of - danger of 3rd Ukrainian counter offensive aimed at Mariupol and Crimea. The Russians have been leaving the Kharkiv and Izium areas for weeks in the light of intelligence on this Ukrainian plan in order to move most of its reserves into the south. We shall see if this turns out to be a real threat or not.
The a.m. report today reinforces this idea in fact - pointing to the massive movement of UKrainian forces by rail to the south by electric run rail system - hence the targeting of power stations in the East.
If this turns out to be true then the urgency of securing Mariupol and Crimea leaves little time to consider anything else - although reports of civilian flight to Russia are still coming in.
Agree completely, that’s why I saw taken aback at being blocked, I generally share just about everything she writes.
The glib way that Martyanov glosses over the danger to pro Russian civilians by asserting something he obviously cannot know is why caught my attention, not anything that Eva K. Bartlett wrote.
I think the Kkarkhov retreat is a disaster for Russia any way one looks at it. If it was ‘planned’ then the betrayal of Russian supporters was also planned. Other civilians in the contested zones will certainly take note that the ‘overall strategy’ does NOT in fact include protecting pro Russian Ukranian citizens from the ‘Nazi’ elements participating in the Uke military. So the ‘de Nazification’ is ALSO a lie.
If it was not planned, but an orderly retreat to an attack then it shows Russian was not prepared.
If it was not planned and in addition a disorderly retreat, a panic, then that shows even more incompetence in high places.
Bartlett’s focus has generally always been on civilian victims, in Gaza, in Syria and in the Donbass…hence I’m disappointed that the plight of pro Russian civilians now caught in the counter offensive success of Ukraine is not an open topic for discussion on her twitter timeline.
Here’s a good analysis of the Kharkhov counthtter offensive, he mentions the plight of the civilians ‘left behind’…leaves the possibility open that it will hurt Russia politically…
Not sure if this adds to the debate or not but here goes. I hear that the lights went out in Ukraine, everywhere, and then went back on 12 hours later. Maybe the Russians just reminding Z and his nazi cohorts who is in charge and what might happen if they persist.
Scott Ritter, to his credit, faces squarely the issue of Russian supporters left behind. He clearly sees it as a betrayal of the stated goals of the special military operation, specifically denazification. I recommend watching the whole video, but here is the part about the betrayal.
This is a very good analysis in my opinion. They talk a lot about the Russians supporters left behind, honest about the Russian betrayal. You may be interested in this: The Saker refused to post a comment I made in which I brought up this point
