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The Stranglers - Down in the Sewer

PatB, there must be some music you can chuck into this thread. I don’t care what genre it is. I love all music.

Talking of which, I really enjoyed the link that NewSi gave to Ray Agee’s There’s Something Wrong. On the subject of ‘Northern Soul’ who can forget Melba Moore (who came from New York City). She originally recorded the following track in 1967, but it wasn’t released until almost 10 years later, in 1986, when it became an immediate hit with clubbers in the north of England. I just wish this track was a bit longer, because it’s a great one to dance around your office to…

Hi @RobG There’s so much music I like, much of which can only be appreciated live, that I need some time to think about which tracks and which artists to mention. I will post something eventually.

I’ve been listening to them again recently…the Ray Manzarek influence is palpable…

KarenEliot, I of course know diddly squat about alexythymia, beyond doing a search on it.

I have to ask: have you written much poetry during your life?

I ask this - to repeat, knowing nothing about alexythymia - because poetry is about as emotionally expressive as you can get, even more so than music.

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Rob, do you know Ted Hughes’ ‘That Morning’, from his collection ‘River’? A hot candidate to bolster what you say just above re. music/poetry: One of the most transcendental texts that I know, by a great poet, strongly connected to the numinous. Perhaps the only thing you might need to know, simply beyond taking in limpidly exactly what the lines are saying, is that brief interjection about “…the sooty twilight of South Yorkshire/ Hung with the drumming drift of Lancasters…” (say that second line! Hear the aero engines?)

Ted was fifteen in '45. I was five. We both remembered the late evening mustering of hundreds of bombers in the sky above us, getting into formations, then setting off eastwards into the dämmerung, towards Germany.

‘River’ has several poems which sit easily in the trancendentally superb bracket; and for my money ‘That Morning’ is the greatest of them; up there with Bach’s D Minor Ciaccona and Beethoven’s Late Quartets.

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Again NewSi, there’s a lot to respond to here, and your second eldest brother Jimmy is another one.

I find all these life stories fascinating. Perhaps because it all helps us to get a grip on our own lives (heavy Stranglers reference there).

Rhis, we posted at the same time.

I’m not familiar with Hughes’ River collection. I’ll go look it up. It certainly sounds interesting.

The world into which my father Michael was born in 1940 was one of fire and fury. His parents Nathaniel and Mary lived in the Borough, an area on the south side of London Bridge which includes the site where Shakespeare’s Globe Theatre used to be. With the outbreak of war Mary and her two children, Kathy and Terry, were evacuated to Oxford. Nathaniel had been called-up by the RAF, assigned to the squads that used to recover shot down planes to either be repaired or used for parts. My father was born in Oxford in September 1940 whilst the Blitz raged in London and the Battle of Britain was being fought in the skies.

It’s in my blood.

Freedom, I mean.

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Not especially a fan of poetry, but a few exceptions. I respond to the rhythm of the words rather than supposed emotional content. Hence Gerard Manley Hopkins is a favourite. And i like rap where the flow, and wordplay, are appealing. Ted Hughes uses words beautifully, as Rhis exemplifies. Some of Charles Bukowski’s stuff, William Blake.

To me, poetry does not have emotional content in perhaps the sense you mean it @Rob. But I’m guessing. Let me explain.

Before I do: as for writing a poem, which hasn’t happened for a very long time, when I read it again afterwards it looks trite and forced. (And probably is. I was taught, badly, that poetry is somehow holy and special, a skill only accessible to a select few whom we should place on pedestals and pretend to enjoy as a way of signalling our class status…)

I enjoy my own prose, and writing it, but cannot imagine a character or manipulate plot: so strictly factual.

Anyway, going back to emotions: the basic ones according to western research are fear, surprise, joy, sadness, disgust, and one that i’ve forgotten. They are short-circuits to the brain. They are linked to survival: something frightened me so I’ll run away (rather than wait for my logical brain to kick in and identify it). That food smells putrid so I won’t eat it. Thus I survive a panther ambush or poisoning.

I choose the example of a panther deliberately: there’s a marvellous poem by Ted Hughes, I’m pretty sure it’s called The Panther. He contrasts the sleek and menacing pacing back and forth of the cat to the monkeys who “yawn and adore their fleas in the sun”. Awe/fear could be the emotional content. Likewise Blake’s Tyger.

Buddhist psychology starts from the basis that we feel towards things that we experience positively, negatively, or neither. It’s called vedana and is the first chain in a circular ‘wheel’ of conditioning (bhavacakra is the wheel, the process is called paticcasamuppada).

The feeling of contentment (or however you wish to characterise it) as you enjoy an ice cream cone, is different from the recollected feeling of “that was nice”, and different too from the sense of anticipated delight felt when imagining “when school kicks out I’m gonna buy an ice cream off the van that parks outside”.

So: you can feel positively now, in the past, in the future. Negatively now, in hindsight, in anticipation. Neutrally now, in the past and the future. So that’s nine emotions (and one of the suttas goes on to expand upon this and come up with a total of 108).

But it’s quite possible to function with just the primary colours, and if propaganda works by connecting to emotional response, then maybe my particular set of wiring helps defend me from the bullshit blizzard…?

One of very few parts of London I know. A former employer had its national HQ in Tabard Street, named after the inn that Chaucer used as the starting point for Canterbury Tales.

The Jaguar

The apes yawn and adore their fleas in the sun.

The parrots shriek as if they were on fire, or strut

Like cheap tarts to attract the stroller with the nut.

Fatigued with indolence, tiger and lion

Lie still as the sun. The boa-constrictor’s coil

Is a fossil. Cage after cage seems empty, or

Stinks of sleepers from the breathing straw.

It might be painted on a nursery wall.

But who runs llike the rest past these arrives

At a cage where the crowd stands, stares, mesmerized,

As a child at a dream, at a dream, at a jaguar hurrying enraged

Through prison darkness after the drills of his eyes

On a short fierce fuse. Not in boredom —

The eye satisfied to be blind in fire,

By the bang of blood in the brain deaf the ear —

He spins from the bars, but there’s no cage to him

More than to the visionary his cell:

His stride is wildernesses of freedom:

The world rolls under the long thrust of his heel,

Over the cage floor the horizons come.

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That last line in ‘The Jaguar’ is one of the great lines in English language poetry; like the last line of Yeats’s ‘Cuchulainn’s Fight With The Sea’:

"…And fought with the invulnerable tide.’

(Hear the breaker?)

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That’s the one: jaguar not panther. So fantastic. I wish I had remembered this when my statistical ecologist friend was here from Brazil. He uses various clever techniques and mapping software to check if numbers are building up in agricultural areas. They are trying to discourage this because then the jaguars prey on livestock and the farmers shoot them. If they can encourage them back to the wilder areas and standard fare of nice plump capybaras (rife in the cities like foxes are in the UK) then survival rates improve.

This cat has been tranquilized just long enough to fit a tracking collar. It sends GPS signals. After a certain amount of time it is pinged and drops off. This is especially important with the cubs of course as the collar can soon become too tight. But where they can they focus on the mummy cats because if they get into the habit of eating cows then their cubs will too. Each of those ‘footprint’ patterns on the coat is uinque by the way, hence the photos help identify the cat.

The photo was taken in September 2020. I think this was his first trip back into the jungle after lockdown in Brazil was lightened…

And the sixth emotion, that I forgot, is anger.

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In Germany, there are already specialist breeders and examiners of dog-proficiency (sic!) of candidate Livestock Guardian Dogs for livestock farmers whose livelihoods are under threat from the returning tide of wolves in the German forests (and into the rest of Western Europe too; yippee!)

These outfits supply the farmers with pairs of Kangal dogs (the olympic-level best of all Livestock Guardian Dogs, la creme de la creme even of the Turkish shepherds’ formidable land-race, the Türk Çoban Köpekleri; two will drive off a bear easily; one seriously-dedicated big male, like my wonderful thunderstorm-challenger Tarcan, will do it alone).

Readers may remember a short vid I was touting a while back of a Chinese zoo where a mixed pack of lions, tigers and Çoban Köpekleri were co-habiting freely in the one large pen; pups and kitties having all grown up together. It was immediately clear who were the dominant animals. Neither the tigers nor the lions would ever challenge the dogs, even when the dogs took their food off them. Such dogs would treat a leopard or a puma as a piece of piss. (I know this is true; I’ve kept four of them.)

US/Canadian stock-farmers have found (what the shepherds of Eurasia have known for several millennia) that the LGD solution is perfect to protect their flocks/herds, but without the need to harm the wild predators in any way. The dogs enforce a permanent ahimsic apartheid between livestock and the wild. Peaceful co-existence rools OK!

If - as I fervently hope - a naturalised breeding population of (medium-size) big cats gets established in Britain, such dogs would be the perfect ingredient to keep benign peace in all parts of the mix: the farmers’ friend; the wildlings saviours.

And as a bonus, I found what many other keepers of LGDs have remarked: with a couple of such dogs in the family, I never had any worries for the safety of my - then - sub-ten-year-old grand-daughter and her coeval friends: the dogs were ALWAYS on watch around them: special charges, on whom they doted. (The subtitles are easily reset to English. Worth the bother):

Some great poets mentioned above chaps. I too am a great lover of the form. Particular pleased to see Blake, Hughes, and Manley-Hopkins in the mix. Of those 3 I’d say Ted is the real powerhouse - he was perhaps the single greatest influence on my all time favourite poet - the current laureate, Simon Armitage. Just a personal view, but I reckon Armitage is the last great poet - nothing I’ve read in the last 20 or so years gets anywhere near his skill. If I had to choose one Armitage poem it would be The Tyre.

Blake was probably the first poet to actually inspire me - such was its resonance, I set his Schoolboy to music when I was indeed still a schoolboy in '81, and then resurrected it for a recording with Anti System in '83 - it featured on the '84 Pax Records comp Bollox to the Gonads Here’s the Testicles:

(Sorry about the apparent me me meness)

My go to Manley-Hopkins is Binsey Poplars - I’d say it’s fairly representative of his gorgeously musical alliterative voice - here’s its glorious first verse:

My aspens dear, whose airy cages quelled,
Quelled or quenched in leaves the leaping sun,
All felled, felled, are all felled;
Of a fresh and following folded rank
Not spared, not one
That dandled a sandalled
Shadow that swam or sank
On meadow & river & wind-wandering weed-winding bank*.*
(the mise en page isn’t rendering correctly here)

Derek Mahon’s, A Disused Shed in County Wexford is brilliant, and worth showing here in its entirety:

Even now there are places where a thought might grow —
Peruvian mines, worked out and abandoned
To a slow clock of condensation,
An echo trapped forever, and a flutter
Of wildflowers in the lift-shaft,
Indian compounds where the wind dances
And a door bangs with diminished confidence,
Lime crevices behind rippling rainbarrels,
Dog corners for bone burials;
And in a disused shed in Co. Wexford,

Deep in the grounds of a burnt-out hotel,
Among the bathtubs and the washbasins
A thousand mushrooms crowd to a keyhole.
This is the one star in their firmament
Or frames a star within a star.
What should they do there but desire?
So many days beyond the rhododendrons
With the world waltzing in its bowl of cloud,
They have learnt patience and silence
Listening to the rooks querulous in the high wood.

They have been waiting for us in a [foetor](
Of vegetable sweat since civil war days,
Since the gravel-crunching, interminable departure
of the expropriated [mycologist].
He never came back, and light since then
Is a keyhole rusting gently after rain.
Spiders have spun, flies dusted to mildew
And once a day, perhaps, they have heard something —
A trickle of masonry, a shout from the blue
Or a lorry changing gear at the end of the lane.

There have been deaths, the pale flesh flaking
Into the earth that nourished it;
And nightmares, born of these and the grim
Dominion of stale air and rank moisture.
Those nearest the door growing strong —
‘Elbow room! Elbow room!’
The rest, dim in a twilight of crumbling
Utensils and broken flower-pots, groaning
For their deliverance, have been so long
Expectant that there is left only the posture.

A half century, without visitors, in the dark —
Poor preparation for the cracking lock
And creak of hinges; magi, moonmen,
Powdery prisoners of the old regime,
Web-throated, stalked like [triffids], racked by drought
And insomnia, only the ghost of a scream
At the flash-bulb firing-squad we wake them with
Shows there is life yet in their feverish forms.
Grown beyond nature now, soft food for worms,
They lift frail heads in gravity and good faith.

They are begging us, you see, in their wordless way,
To do something, to speak on their behalf
Or at least not to close the door again.
Lost people of Treblinka and Pompeii!
‘Save us, save us,’ they seem to say,
‘Let the god not abandon us
Who have come so far in darkness and in pain.
We too had our lives to live.
You with your light meter and relaxed itinerary,
Let not our naive labours have been in vain!’

Of course Seamus Heaney is masterful, his volumes fill my shelves too - like Hughes, there’s a fabulous muscularity to his poetry - though I chose his rather sweet Lupins (from Electric Light) as part of my eulogy for my mother. That said, even gentle-sounding verse can convey a much darker material - such as Heaney’s, Song:

A rowan like a lipsticked girl.
Between the by-road and the main road
Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance
Stand off among the rushes.

There are the mud-flowers of dialect
And the immortelles of perfect pitch
And that moment when the bird sings very close
To the music of what happens.

From my reading - the lipstick on the rowan is the blood from the back of the head of the unfortunate who was stood in front of the tree before a single bullet to the head ended that life! Quite powerful stuff - though Heaney really hits his stride with longer offerings such as Clearances.

The Liverpool Scene absolutely would have to feature in any serious discussion about poetry - so I’ll just drop them in here - their LPs are utterly fantastic things.

I could go on, and on, but that’s probably enough from me for now. However I will add that I’ve just started rereading Milton’s Paradise Lost - imo PL is best read aloud - it’s said to be blank verse, though it chimes and rings beautifully when you actually hear it - can’t remember who said (Empson, Leavis, or maybe even Wordsworth) that reading Milton is akin to chewing an apple - well one sure has to get those jaws working to bring Milton’s words off the page : )


Apols - when I went for the link to Schoolboy I was amazed to discover this cover version:

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Milton is up there with Shaksper, when it comes to great gobs of the transcendental, torn through the veil and presented to needy humankind. And yes, with both of them it only comes full blast when spoken. Same can be said of Christopher Logue’s wonderful ‘account’ (fair enough description, because poetry can’t be translated) of several books of The Iliad: ‘War Music’. Alan Howard’s reading of it - on YT - is splendid.

Wot, no Wot No Meat??

Where GMH goes, Felix Randall (sp?) is my favourite.

By Liverpool Scene do you mean Roger McGough etc? I would certainly include them too, and can’t think why I didn’t mention Philip Larkin. But there. I just did.

We’re into the Chrismasy stuff, so maybe a bit more music, for a bit of a laugh.

Back in the early 1970s my cousin Lee went to school in south London with a geezer called Steve Harley. Steve Harley was a very difficult customer, by all accounts. At the time he was putting together a band called ‘Cockney Rebel’. Most of the band members walked out due to the difficulty with working with such a huge ego. Harley wrote the song ‘Make Me Smile’ as an angry reposte to former band members. He had to get in session musicians to record the song, which ironically went on to be world-wide hit

It’s still a great song, although you can probably tell from the above clip that it’s not a real band.

ps. to be fair to Steve Harley, in later years he always denied the accusations that he was a complete bastard. I’ve no idea what the truth is, beyond the fact that my cousin Lee used to fight him in the school playground.

Whatever the truth, I think you can die happily having made a track like ‘Make Me Smile’.

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By the way, there’s so much interesting stuff on this thread that I’ve been unable to keep up with it all. I’ll probably come back to it months later.

I’ll give one last music hit on here Christmas weekend. No prizes for guessing what it will be.

Christmas Soon, JP, Chrissie and the Fairground Boys?

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