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South Africa files case at ICJ accusing Israel of ‘genocidal acts’ in Gaza

Middle East
#61

Even more fundemental is the fact the the UN never agreed to the creation of Israel. These are the words of the then UN Secretary General (I don’t remember the year, around 2000).

“On Nov. 29, 1947, it [the UN General Assembly] passed General Assembly Resolution 181, ‘The Partition Plan,’ to carve a Jewish state out of Arab Palestine. However, it was never ratified by the Security Council, and so does not exist in law, which means the UN played no role in the creation of Israel. Nevertheless, ‘The Partition Plan’ was utterly illegal and a violation of the UN Charter, because the UN had no right or power to take land from one people and give it to another.”

“…Few people know that Israel is the only state to be given a conditional admission. Under General Assembly Resolution 273, Israel was admitted on the condition that it grant all Palestinians the right to return to their homes and receive compensation for lost or damaged property, according to General Assembly Resolution 194 paragraph 11. Suffice to say, Israel has never lived up to these terms, and never intended to."

“For 60 years Israel has violated its terms of admission, and for 60 years the UN has done nothing about it. It has watched as Israel heaped misery upon misery on Palestine, and violated international law with impunity. After ‘Operation Cast Lead,’ no person, no country, no democracy can look at Israel without thinking of the inhuman slaughter and destruction committed by the axis powers in World War II, though one could have said the same about numerous past massacres. What atrocities might the world have been spared if the UN had refused to admit Israel 60 years ago?"

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#62

My understanding is that Israel was recognised by Truman after he received this (the nearest I’ve seen to a declaration of borders) :-

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He didn’t hang about (he had financial matters to think about):-

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Recognition by the rest of the world was a formality after that but since it was based on the liar Epstein’s memo you could say that Truman, and the rest of the world, actually recognised Israel within the borders specified by the UN resolution of 29/11/47:-

Interesting (academic!) reading, especially p.146 onwards about the international city of Jerusalem within the Economic Union of Palestine. (That went well). Good luck with the monochrome map (at the end). There are plenty of clearer versions - in colour - eg. on Wikipedo. The proposed boundaries of Jerusalem are clear enough though.

The whole Zionist enterprise was bent and dirty from the start but the bastards succeeded (well, up to press, sort of) by not entertaining illusions about legality, morality, scruple etc. Millions have died to make this excrescence possible and continue to do so. It so badly needs to finally(!) go under the bus.

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#63

Hi @PatB , it seems to be a fact as you point out that the UN did not play a role in the creation of Israel. As I understand it Israel was a creation of British Policy (supported and propagated by Zionism ) backed by British and Israeli military force against the unarmed civilian population of Palestine.

The UN did decide in Resolution 273 to admit the State of Israel as a member of the UN exactly as required by Article 4 of the UN Charter
"Article 4

  1. Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations.
  2. The admission of any such state to membership in the United Nations will be effected by a decision of the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council."
    https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text

In 273 the preamble included numerous references - none of which are part of the decision making part of Resolution 273, the decisions are as follows:

"The General Assembly,

Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules procedures ( majority voting of those present) ,

  1. Decides that Israel is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligation contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
  2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Two hundred and seventh plenary meeting , 11 may 1949"

As you can see there are no conditional words attached to the decision to admit the State of Israel - the conditional elements of previous reolutions referred to by the Sec Gen are only contained in the preamble and are not as such part of the decision - as I would read it. Israel only agreed to honour the terms of the UN from the date it became a member ( thereby excluding any reference to previous UN resolutions, imo).
Clearly the SEC Gen is right that since 11 May 1949 Israel has been a serial violator of the UN terms of admission and UNSC resolutions which all States must abide by but there was nothing conditional about its terms of membership that differed from any other member.

So to my mind the UN General Assembly acted within its competence in deciding to admit Israel as a UN member on the recommendation of UN Security Council Resolution 69 (4th March1949 ):

In recommending the admission, the UN Security Council recognised Israel as a State and so did the UN general assembly in 273 when it called Israel a peace loving State ( 11th May 1949).

BUT the fact that the UNSC and UNGA recognised Israel as a “State” does not mean they had established the borders of Israel in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 181 ( 29th November 1947 ) - the General Assembly did not have power to make decisions to act on the splitting up of Palestinian land this is not within the Charter and only the UNSC could intervene to stop armed conflict which threatened the region by specific resolutions.

https://www.un.org/en/ga/about/background.shtml

I doubt even then the Charter gave the UNSC power to divide a whole nation into 2! In 1947 the Uniting for Peace resolution had not been passed:

" The Assembly may also take action in cases of a threat to the peace, breach of peace or act of aggression, when the Security Council has failed to act owing to the negative vote of a permanent member. In such instances, according to its “Uniting for peace” resolution of 3 November 1950, the Assembly may consider the matter immediately and recommend to its Members collective measures to maintain or restore international peace and security"

As you say, the Gen Sec’s statement confirms my understanding that the UNSC did not ratify the GA’s resolution 181 and hence the borders have never been confirmed by the UN. We agree then that the UN has not “created” Israel. All that it has done is “recognised” the existence of the State of Israel without delineating its specific borders.

All I am saying that at this stage of being a recognised state but without recognised borders opens up the ability to justify the victims’ actions in attacking that illegally occupied land. At the same time Israel cannot have a right to defend land which it has obtained by arms and is not recognised as their land by the UN.

This hardly gets analysed, afaics.

cheers

#64

Thanks @AlanG , I hadn’t seen the 2 documents you post above.

As you say the statement from Epstein quoting the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 ( 29th November 1947 ) has no strength given that it was never ratified by the UN security Council nor could it have been because to do so would be acting ultra vires and hence unlawfully.

Epstein, as Agent, says that “the State of Israel has been proclaimed within frontiers approved by the General Assembly…” which is a half truth in that a resolution of the General Assembly could not in 1947, 1948 or 1949 be declared to take action on most subjects without such resolution being ratified by the UN Security council ( I list these in my last post to PatB). Resolution 181 remains an unratified series of suggestions and proposals which have no binding force. Given that is illegal to acquire lands by force of arms, to suggest that any political organisation can just announce that it is a State and its borders incorporate, say, the whole of its neighbours’ lands, would be regarded as total insanity. And yet we are told that a Jewish Agency can do more or less that by its declaration and the subsequent recognition by the US and others! Delusions of grandeur or what!

Truman’s announcement that “the United States recognizes the provisional government as the de facto authority of the new State of Israel” focuses on the political and makes no mention of State borders or UN General Assembly resolutions. They may do in other public pronouncements I have only just started to look into this area of the Palestine question.

I can’t seem to access your link to 003888 is this the same as Resolution 181 (II) Future Government of Palestine which I accessed here:

cheers

#65

Both of you (@CJ1 and @AlanG ) have clearly done some serious homework. Given time, I’d love to read all the stuff you both quote, but until then I return to the truth of the matter. International law, UN General Assembly resolutions, and to a large extent public opinion mean sweet fanny adams if they are contrary to Israehells position.

Even the various analyses posted here by Craig Murray and others, while offering a glimmer of hope, the complete destruction of Gaza and the genocide of the Palestinians continues unabated. Even my ‘liberal’ friends are “bored” or “sick to death” of the news from Gaza and turn it over or off.

Last week I was in a large supermarket from a well known French chain. Plenty of avocados and tangerines from Israehell. I’m tiring of writing emails to the CEO’s of these companies and surreptitiously squeeze a few avocados so they aren’t saleable. But I walk away feeling helpless and disgusted by the world.

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#66

Me too @PatB , it’s one of the reasons I constantly harp on about the Rule of Claw, justice is an illusion throughout the world as it is too little. too late and the facts on the ground have moved on to greater and greater horrors - for me the one consolation is the family - my grandchildren are all half Palestinian fortunately free from the horrors of Gaza and the West Bank.

cheers

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#67

Yes CJ, that’s the feller. The UK attempted to avoid responsibility for the disaster by handing the ‘issue’ of ‘Palestine’ over to the UN. The ad hoc committee, UNSCOP, came up with the weird partition plan with the ‘borders’ which was approved by the GA.

Doubtless the outcome would have been the same whether or not the SC had involved itself. Mao was right about the provenance of power. . .

The documents are in the Truman archive. Search for ‘recognition of israel’ and get some interesting stuff. . .

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#68

Hi folks here’s another attempt by RSA to move the ICJ into action, so far as they can do anything tangible!

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-south-africa-urges-icj-intervene-halt-israel-rafah-offensive

cheers

PS many nations now pushing for ceasefire :

#69

Let’s not forget the “Black arts” so enthusiastically pursued by Mossad - it appears that Israel is using all their evil tools to intimidate anyone in the world who opposes them. Here we have the latest victims - the RSA Foreign Minister, Naledi Pandor, and her family:

cheers

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#70

ZA is very likely to be an epicentre for election interference at the moment. General Election has not yet been announced but needs to be held by May 2024. EFF have been campaigning hard for some time and while their “Kill the Boer” wing doesn’t win many friends outside the country the party does seem to have a decent “sharp suits” budget which prolly extends to other sanitary manuevres.

Undermining BRICS and the ICJ case would be boxes that CIA, Mossad and, especially, MI6 would all be happy to tick. Targeting Naledi and Cyril Ramaphosa would be high on the agenda. More or less the whole Buthelezi/Tutu generation have gone now, an enormous swathe of the population won’t even remember apartheid. And there’s still plenty of lovely minerals and other resources to be lapped up.

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#71

Hi folks, anyone seen the Israeli report which the ICJ ordered them to prepare within a month from 26th January 2024 - I think this is today assuming we are saying a “legal” month is 28 days! Some have suggested that a month means to 26th February 2024?

nothing today afaics

Mind you, anyone with a set of eyes can see Israel has totally disregarded the ICJ’s provisional measures report or not! Are they just going to lie through their teeth as usual and will the ICJ just accept those lies - my view, probably!

cheers

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#72

I’m sure that’s what Starmer went to Munich to demand of Herzog and Blinken.
Oh wait. No he came back and weakened the SNP resolution in Israel’s favour.

The Tories did a splendid job of distracting from Starmer’s role by blaming the Labour Commons Speaker instead (who Starmer had pressurized), who was ‘forced’ to apologize for ‘the mess’, a mess that obviously resulted from the actions of Starmer himself.

Unfortunately a focus on Starmer would have splashed back on to the Tories and their policy on Israel. That would have been a small price to pay to damage the leader of the party that is set to push them out of power in a year or so. It’s almost as if they have the same handlers.

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#73

I’m not a big fan of Aljazeera. However, they seem to be the only channel to show what becomes more and more obvious as genocide (in case there was any doubt)

They and some amateur reporters show every day, outrageous war crimes. Where are all the Arab countries, the “left wing” European activists, and Sneer Starmer. Aljazeera continues to report on negotiations for the release of hostages as if this would end the appalling egregious killings.

Of course @CJ1 the missing ICJ deadline just shows the futility of the ICJ and the ICC unless of course they are acting against black people.

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#74

Hi folks, it seems that Israel handed over a “report” to the ICJ within hours of the deadline yesterday 26th February 2024.

Most news reports don’t give any more than that - YNet had the most comments:

ynetnews.com/article/bk6zhd9na

"Israel files report with ICJ on Gaza measures, Israeli official says
Netanyahu approves Israeli response authored by the Justice Ministry and asks it be limited; Israel’s position is that the actions order by the international judicial panel were already in effect regardless of the ruling
Itamar Eichner, Reuters|Yesterday | 21:09

Israel on Monday filed a report with the International Court of Justice about measures taken to comply with an interim ruling that called on it to prevent Gaza war actions that might amount to genocide, an Israeli official said.

The court ordered Israel to refrain from any acts that could fall under the Genocide Convention and to ensure its troops commit no genocidal acts against Palestinians after South Africa accused Israel of state-led genocide. Israel and its Western allies described the allegation as baseless.

In its ruling, the court said Israel specifically had to prevent and punish any public incitements to commit genocide against Palestinians in Gaza and to preserve evidence related to any allegations of genocide there. It also said the country must take measures to improve the humanitarian situation for Palestinian civilians in the enclave.

Israel said in its response that it complied with three orders of the ICJ but that two additional orders demanding Israel prevent genocide had no operative meaning.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu approved the Israeli response authored by the Justice Ministry and asked that it be limited. The message from Israel was that the orders issued were for actions that had been in effect regardless of the legal proceedings. "

Ynet dropping all the detail of the actual 26th Jan 2024 preliminary decisions of the ICJ and as expected Israel is lying through its teeth, imo.

The RSA now has an opportunity to comment on the Israel “report” before the judges of the ICJ - but I have no idea what happens then! I believe RSA’s request that the Israeli report be made public was denied - clearly the RSA will see it and we may get a “leak” from somewhere as there are 17 judges from different nations who will see the report and RSA’s response?!

My guess is that ICJ will make some sort of announcement about the report and the RSA comment on it within a few days. But who knows?!

cheers

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#75

finally the uk Column has 4 minutes of sound material on the horror of Gaza genocide:

50 minutes in

cheers

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#76

Very powerful and moving. I wondered about the source for the video insert and see that the show notes are asking the same thing. Seems like they used ArcGIS to accumulate and display the data. This link has the data for (un)damaged agricultural land and a swipe tool for showing ‘before’ and ‘after’. There’s every possibility that the situation has worsened as the data is a month old now.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/856650d9bb81426fb49b8ca8593394d4/

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Any flak chucker worth their salt will complain that I’ve zoomed in for dramatic effect in the second image. Yeah: I know how to lie with statistics too.

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