I believe from Americas Front Line Doctors , that Ivermectin was over the counter here in France. With several French colonies being in malaria zones, travelers to those areas would buy it over the counter and it too, completely vanished. Magic?
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“And the ‘no virus’ argument might say well viruses may exist, but they are the result (not the cause) of the bodies attempt to rid itself of all the poison’s being eaten, drunk, breathed in, or beamed at it!”
And those - possible - nano-structures could be better thought of as useful exosomes, passing along a warning message to others, containing samples and instructions on successful coping methods, to be archived by the recipient’s immune system; a process already identified as existing in many parts of the Earth’s lifeweb; in the way trees warn each other of insect attacks, for example, by putting out aromatic vapours as messengers to their neighbours.
It all depends which worldview you adopt: Nature red in tooth and claw, a nightmare of vicious competition; or Nature the Garden of Eden, a dream of cooperative help and harmony; dedicated always to maintaining creative balance, through constant evolution.
It really does come down to which worldview you embrace: Life as ‘a sair fecht’; or life dedicated to growing towards love: the Great Purpose of Big Mind.
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Thanks PatB.
So is 5G central to the argument then. What about Sars 1
Is there no spike protein, do they mention it? 29,000 papers on it in Pubmed, and known before 5G.
Not to make you the spokesperson or anything 
. But I’d love to see one of the leaders on the technical stand.
Cheers
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Worth considering, E, that we’ve all been taking a considerable beating from severe pollutive disasters since before I was born. For example, it now seems that the ‘miracle vaccination cure for polio’ actually rode to Nobelity on the tail of a growing realisation that dousing everyone and everything in DDT and arsenic compounds wasn’t a good idea, and needed to stop. Ergo, it was a partial cessation of mass-poisoning, together with steadily-improving living conditions for the general public, rather than a highly iffy vaccine, that defeated the disease.
What I’m suggesting is that, right here and now, we are already a grossly weakened population, in many parts of the world, because of a longish period of assault with a whole toxic soup of poisons, so it’s hardly surprising if there’s a tendency to mass illness. Now add in general microwave assault, as a further stressor…
Then on top, add in the development and wilful releasing of novel pathogens; something which - once the curtains of denial are torn down - is obviously what’s been going on in the ultra-secretive ‘defence’ labs.
What these pathogens may be, exactly, isn’t clear. But, simply by trial and error - the engineer’s rather than the theoretician’s approach - whatever may be the actual biological process going on, ‘viral’ infection, or something quite other, still, the mengeles have bodged-up, just by tinkering with masses of victim mice, guinea-pigs, ferrets, monkeys and so on, an arsenal of promising killer soups, which do what they envisage in the way of inducing mass illnesses, practically speaking, even if their theoretical explanation of it is in disarray.
Denis Rancourt (boo, hiss! 
) is interesting on this idea. He postulates that technological prowess, as distinct from strictly-conjectural worldview theories such as big-bang or viruses, has little to do with theoreticians and much more to do with tinkerers/inventors: practical, mucky-handed people who invent workable technologies simply by trial and error, guided more by intuition than anything - “Let’s just give this a try” - and without much use of theoretics at all. Practical applied serendipity, you might say…
Hindsight may tell us eventually that it was just such a dog’s-breakfast of confusion which nevertheless handed us, in practical terms, this weird two and a bit years of alleged pandemic, when in reality no-one anywhere - no-one at all - currently has a complete theoretical explanation of what happened, and how: the cock-up theory of history.
We can by now be pretty confident, though, that some sort of criminal conspiracy was part of the confusion-mix: some coterie of crooks conspired to foist the covid ‘pandemic’ on us all, however confused their understanding of virus theory might be. The labs had obviously stumbled on some pathogenic agent, fit for a global ‘health emergency’ scam, even if they had no adequate theoretical foundation on which to ground it.
That’s what the labs are for, after all. They must have stumbled on some interesting discoveries, during their time.
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Hi folks, I just had a couple of passing thoughts-
1.The panic started in 2020 when we saw pictures/ videos of a few people just dropping face down in the street - in Wuhan then in Italy. The numbers were minute and yet photographers were there to record these handful of rare events - what are the odds of videoing such events?
Is it not more likely that these were White helmet type screen shots?
-
Both Stefan Lanka and Poornima Wagh have pointed to the likely way in which “researchers” have photos of spike proteins - the particles they examine have been treated with a highly toxic substance that eats away the edges of spherical exosomes morphing them into cog like shapes for the “spike pics”!?
-
SL not only denies the existence of disease causing Viruses he also declares that the human genome project is a scam
Dr. Stefan Lanka: "All claims about viruses as pathogens are false"
( right at the end of the article) -
The lot number for jabs has been shown to be vital in determining the side effects literally a lot-tery! So both Carrie Madej and Poornima Wagh may have just been given the highly toxic vials to test. Hmmm!?
Cheers
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Hi CJ1.
Yes, the only clip of an actual falling person in the Mail story showed them reaching out with their hands to the ground to break their fall! Now you mention it, there didn’t seem to be many of these ‘dropping people’ clips in the rest of the pandemic, or outside China.
Re your point no. 2, is the idea that researchers are in on a massive deception.
In some of the better microscopic pics the spike proteins look like regular entities not a residue of a destructive process, which would look very irregular.
This is (I assume) one of pathologist Prof Arnie Burkhardt’s - his immunohistological pictures I posted about (here, Pathologist Dr Arne Burkhardt and Dr Sucharit Bhakdi homing in on vaccine deaths? - #3 by Evvy_dense) have been written into a paper.
I won’t be arguing back against everything, but I still feel the Novirus theory is a very long shot, but also that it hardly matters what I think as I’m not able to judge the evidence! Trouble is, they are arguing the case against the best activists. Not sure whose fault that is though…
Cheers
Hi @Evvy_dense , thanks for linking to this - as you say the no virus activists are arguing against both pro vax science and anti-vax science. All the pro virus anti-vax guys are not actually engaging with the no virus anti-vax guys as far as I understand it - the latter after all are a small section of the science community. And I agree we have insufficient knowledge to really engage with the technical issues in an argument with either side.
Still, I would imagine if Burkhardt had come across vials of jabs only containing hydrogel metals and graphene without any mrna he too would be outraged. This is another element of the puzzle - there is no consistency of vax product to compare research or observations.
The pictures in the Burkhardt paper on the virus may not have been produced by B but taken from widely available pictures, he is after all concentrating on the vax material so he may not have been aware of the steps leading up to those virus pictures? The vax material has however been manufactured - presumably to ensure the spike protein resembles the virus spike pictures and ensure the body produces the same form of spike as is in the vax - so no manipulation of the vax morphology would presumably be required.
If you are steeped in the methods of your profession it would be difficult for anyone to question these fundamentals.
As you say how can we know - but if people like Lanka and Wagh are raising these issues then maybe we should keep on asking questions?
cheers
Yes Burkardt may have used ‘stock’ pictures, quite likely…I still find it hard to believe the people that know what’s what would be fooled by pictures that are produced by many different sources. I expect he knows some people have found other things in the vials, but I agree the haphazard sourcing of the vaccines researchers are looking at might render that side of things problematic.
“As you say how can we know - but if people like Lanka and Wagh are raising these issues then maybe we should keep on asking questions?”
I think it likely harms the effort to expose the obvious criminality by shifting attention away from tangible crimes to unresolvable technical issues, and by potentially splitting those opposed to the narrative that matters most. We already know the raison d’etre of the vaccines was a sham, in my view we don’t need a monumental effort to nail down a different sham! (Edit) At least, I think it’s not a very good time for those already engaged in opposing the narrative to change tack.
Even if the Novirusers are right it may not even be a sham - it could even boil down to a technical distinction without changing much in practice.
Cheers
True it could impact the case against the covid jab by accusing the no virus proponents of being tinfoil hatters and smearing all other opposition to the jab with the same brush. However, at the moment we are on the cusp of the online harms bill which will completely snuff out both sides of the opposition on line and protest of any sort will also be denied us.
In a court case one would argue firstly that there is no proven virus that harms people ( stressing that the so-called Covid disease could easily have been triggered by a combination of different elements present in the atmosphere at the time it kicked off - followed by mis-diagnosis of ordinary flu or pneumonia leading to poor outcomes ), but if it is proven otherwise then the second argument would be to show that the jab had injured and killed millions? world wide. Also the jab contains different levels of toxins according to which batch you look at. If we wait to present the no virus case then it may never be presented - and ultimately this issue if successful will kill off the next round of scamdemics whereas the cov jab case may only impact that jab.
It’s a difficult call, - maybe the immediate way forward is to get the key players in the same room - not to discuss no virus theories but to sort out the exposure of the cov jab variable toxic contents and include John O’looney’s embalming experience. I think speed is of the essence at the moment.
cheers
Hi CJ1
As a layman I don’t know how such a case could even be presented. I don’t know any medical evidence to refer to other than a handful of dissident voices. Whereas the vaccine damage is concrete and well-supported.
The No-virus adherents can bring their own case, but for them to get between the vaccine opponents and the vaccine pushers fills me with dread - it seems like a form of madness to me, like they are oblivious to the possible harm that they can re-enable.
I see the no-virus line as opposing the opposition. If it didn’t exist, the vaccine industry would have invented it to discredit the opposition (as you suggest), as they are the only beneficiaries that I can see. As you also note, they aren’t engaging themselves - they seem happy that vaccine opponents are being engaged!
Cheers
Hi @Evvy_dense , sorry for my poorly worded post I didn’t mean an actual court case just the way a double or triple argument can be maintained even where they are competing.
Although the no virus team seems less than a dozen doctors and researchers a few like Cowan, Sam Bailey and maybe Kaufman will have a larger public following than the individual anti vax pro virus members apart from maybe Mercola. But the medical professions as a whole totally swamp the no virus team and the latter get no msm exposure and are censored off the big social media platforms. So in practice I would guess the no virus arguments have made little impact. Further the only research paper seems to be Lanka’s!
Overall it’s a great pity all jab opposition doesn’t at the very least unite on the HCQ and Ivermectin scandals as this is key to protecting public health and if re-authorised for off label use would kill the jab.
Thanks for this thread E.
Cheers
No need for apologies CJ. I didn’t know the size of the following. People have a right to follow who they want of course. Your suggestion of uniting in opposition where appropriate makes sense in theory, but how to stop it from being fatally competitive? An Early Covid Treatment movement - oh that’s not a good name . Something like that, anyway. Cheers
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A possible, reality-following narrative:
For millions of years, life-forms have been putting out messages to each other, in the form of contributions to the always-circulating air/water/soil-plankton of microscopic objects, chemicals, liquids, vapours and droplets.
These message outputs are evolved methods of dealing with changes in circumstances that amount to challenges. They alert recipients to new facts that must be dealt with, and how the message-senders are dealing with them effectively: instructions-with-samples. This messaging function simply became evolved into the machinery of the lifeweb of the planet, because it happened to confer a survival advantage on those individual creatures within the web who used it.
We can call the minute message packets themselves viruses; or we could just as reasonably call them exosomes; the main difference being that no moral judgement is attached to the exosome label, whereas the virus label carried with it from the outset an automatic inclusion of the idea: ‘Bad! Dangerous! A deadly enemy to be hated and fought! To arms all loyal citizens!!! Formez vos bataillions! Baa! Baa!’
Now - key idea: If the recipient of the message is not in tip-top health, processing the incoming message can be quite an upset: ‘symptoms’ come into awareness: ‘Oh, I’m unwell!’ Though perhaps a better interpretation might be: ‘Oh crikey, this message-packet is having a strong effect! Oh well, if I just endure it as best I can, it will be giving me a useful clear-out of toxins, whilst at the same time adding to the library of my immune system. Now what help can I give to assist that process…?’
As to what you might see under electron microscopy when searching for viruses/exosomes: well, you’re always going to be searching about in a hugely variegated soup of plankton, of air, of water and of soil. Be extremely careful with interpreting what you think you’ve found; especially when groping about in the sort of grossly-toxified soups that standard ‘cell culture’ protocols create.
An interpretation such as sketched out above gives due weight to both terrain (how well have you looked after the health of your community, as well as of your own bodymindspirit?), and to ‘germs’; what should we think about all the tinies floating about in our environment? Are any of them truly ‘bad, evil, implacable enemies out to get us’? Or might a cooperative rather than a competitive interpretation be more appropriate? Take care of the health of yourself and of your community, and then the messages will be entirely benign? Easily dealt with, in fact; as healthy, young creatures usually seem to do.
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PS: This way of looking at things also allows the integration into a sound explanation of what happened the obviously-correct assumption that extensive research has been going on in secret labs to find ways of making illnesses worse; preferably disabling or lethal. The point is that, even if you think you’re dealing with viruses they could just as well be originally-innocent messenger exosomes: perverting something good into something evil, in a nutshell.
It then becomes clear that a lot of people who identify as virologists (woke-pisstake snark intended! 
) are in fact tampering with exosomes; they just have an orc-ish image of the things that they work on…
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Rhis, to sort of add to what you’re saying, in 2018 I went to see a doctor here in France. It was the first time I’d seen a doctor in 20 years. I had a very bad chest infection; no surprise, since my lungs have always been crap.
I left the doctor’s surgery with a prescription that cost me 100 euros (all I wanted was anti-biotics, which would have cost about 8 euros). The doctor, a nice young lady, also prescribed blood pressure tablets, saying that I could keel over at any moment from a stroke or heart attack. I was on the blood pressure tablets for the next year or so, and boy, did they fuck-up my body. I eventually threw all the tablets in the bin.
I’m still alive after the covid pandemic, when every evening a cart would come down our lane, and a bell would be rung and people would bring out their dead.
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Like this in France, is it?
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Rhis, over the coming months I think we’re all going to need a sense of humour to get us through it:
WOMAN:
Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR:
Well, we all are. we’re all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN:
I didn’t know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
DENNIS:
You’re fooling yourself. We’re living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes–
WOMAN:
Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS:
That’s what it’s all about if only people would–
ARTHUR:
Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
WOMAN:
No one live there.
ARTHUR:
Then who is your lord?
WOMAN:
We don’t have a lord.
ARTHUR:
What?
DENNIS:
I told you. We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
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It’s the very short scene before that that always tickles me
Large Man: Who’s that then?
Dead Collector: I dunno. Must be a king.
Large Man: Why?
Dead Collector: He hasn’t got shit all over him.
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Nice one, Karen.
I suppose you’re too busy at the moment preparing your fly and maggot omelette to have seen this…
Your omelette, of course, is not made from real eggs. That part of it comes from re-cycled plastic turbine blades.
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Yikes. The long term effects of being “married” to Tom Cruise start to manifest? Fond of a glass of her own wee, allegedly, too.
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